Not allowed siblings at my sons nativity play .. including my breast fed baby??

[WinnieLovett]

My daughter is 4 months old and breastfeeding.

My two other sons are involved in the school nativity play. The school will be having two performers one at 2:30 and one at 7:00.

I have been informed that the school has a ‘no sibling rule’ to watching so I will not be allowed to bring my daughter. The issue is these times are both when she has milk.

I was also told by the head that she may make noise and interrupt the performance !!

Really sad as I don’t want to miss it ! But do not feel happy leaving my baby at these times!

It depends on how hard the HT wants to be with the enforcement. I have had police attend and remove parents before now and the same could be done for siblings. Schools are controlled environments and there are significant pieces of legislation that govern how they operate including safeguarding arrangement and who can and cannot be on the school site. The HT might try and use diplomacy but ultimately has the authority to have someone removed from the school site.

@NastyPastie erm no it really isn't discrimination at all. You can't have a ban except for certain exclusions or it's no longer a ban is it? Do you get banned from driving unless you want to pop to Tesco? The only way to make a sibling ban fair for all is to have no exclusions otherwise you could claim it's discrimination against bottle fed babies 🙄

But that’s not how it happens. The HT knows the school community, and engages in constructive dialogue with the parents. The HT knows how many children are involved in the production, and the maximum number of parents that could attend. Assuming no siblings is stated, then a parent queries whether they can bring their baby. HT agrees as no seat taken up as baby is four months old. Nobody else needs to be aware as they are following the school guidance. Maybe if the single mum feels strongly she too would discuss with HT. for the sake of three or four extra seats am sure the commonsense solutions could be found. I am organising a school event in a school tomorrow with 320 people attending. One breastfeeding baby would not be a problem and it would not sit at all well with the ethos of our school to have such a ridiculously rigid ‘rule’ that would only serve to alienate a proportion of women at a (potentially) vulnerable time in their parenthood. The whole point of a nativity play is to remind us of the positive values that many schools adopt… Shane they can’t be applied here

I think it’s more of a shame that so many people are more interested in an adult’s right to ignore a clear and logical request than in the experience of the kids putting on the play.

And don’t tell me this is about the mum’s right to see her sons - it’s not, because she has no interest in the other school mums who can’t see theirs because they have more than one child. It’s a breastfeeding crusade. Chances are if the baby is generally cranky at the hour of the performance then mum is going to be busy tending to her anyway, not watching her sons.

I just feel for all the kids who are apparently less important than one human rights crusade, despite being the entire reason anyone is there to begin with.

This isn't anti breast feeding though? It's a rule about siblings?

Loads of great suggestions.

Totally this. A breastfeeding crusade is exactly what it is and many of the people on this thread have breastfed and are breastfeeding advocates but don't support the entitlement of the OP and others supporting her to run roughshod over the schools position.

But a legal ban (e.g. driving) is different to the school’s guidance because it isn’t legally enforceable. Yes a HT can ask the police to remove someone but that is a different issue. Say a person claiming to be a parent turns up and demands to collect a child, or a parent turns up drunk and disorderly. Of course HT has to protect children and safeguard them, and police would be called if necessary.

this sibling ‘ban’ is not law. It is not something the DfE have issued guidance on even. It is guidance issued by a school but as with all situations (holidays in term time for example) the HT uses their discretion to decide what is the best course of action.

it is not about childcare (ie single parent has nobody to have the baby, bottle feeding parent has no one else to have the baby) - they are separate (and valid) issues which those parents may choose to discuss with HT and they may or may not make an allowance e for them too.

the breastfed 4 month year old can’t tell the time and won’t suffer etc etc but - the mother is feeding the baby on demand and wants to bring the baby with her for that reason. Different issue.

With regards to all the comments regarding disruption and distraction at school plays, it goes with the territory. In 16 years of teaching I’ve never been able to hear every word uttered, with coughing, crying, vomiting, talking, whispering, photographing, chairs scraping… it is what it is. And I do believe, much as they are a traditional annual event and lots of children enjoy them and it’s a special moment, my personal opinion is that schools feel obligated to put on an annual nativity play for parents and would happily swap the stress for some other activity that the children would benefit more from.

Doubt that filming is allowed now a days, child protection and all that. I work in the theatre and put on many school plays, filming is strictly forbidden.

And likewise many breastfeeding supporters and advocates don’t support the school running roughshod over the mums position.

it’s not a breastfeeding crusade and it’s not about putting one person’s rights above others. It’s about standing up for someone who is feeling excluded on the basis of the fact that she is breastfeeding. Maybe the OP will make alternative arrangements. Maybe they won’t go. Maybe the school will change its stance. But I don’t like how people turned on the OP with so little support for what she was actually asking for

This is definitely the place to performance BF your baby

I agree with everybody else. Sorry.

The School undoubtedly are trying their best to keep within fire regulations, to keep all parents happy and to provide an environment which is easiest for their small performers to cope with so they can deliver their lines. It’s hard to get that balancing act right and I love the idea of a pre performance to include siblings. It would allow a more distraction free performance at the other timings.
School teachers, and particularly Heads, are under so much pressure, surely it’s possible for people to see that both ‘sides’ have a really valid argument. Logically though the teachers will ‘side’ with what’s best for the children they teach, hence the decision. I think it has little to do with one set of parents over another.

Maybe the school will decide to make it fair for all and just film the nativity without an audience put it online for parents. That would solve the problem for op.

It's actually extremely unsupportive of the OP to constantly post bollocks about laws you don't understand because you wish they were different and you don't want to admit how wrong you are.

Imagine if she or another breastfeeding woman were to pay attention to you and turn up at the school parroting some of the shit you've come out with about equality law and schools as public property! At best she'd make a total fool of herself. I certainly don't think you need to be a qualified solicitor to understand the way in which discrimination law operates in this area, especially as it's not actually remotely complex (about the only thing you've got right). But still, you have no idea what you're talking about.

By all means argue that school are behaving unfairly, that's fine, but your contributions have been actively unhelpful.

I don’t really agree with the No sibling rule as this is possibly going to exclude a lot of people and it’s only a school nativity, hardly a performance of the royal Shakespeare company. People always brought kids to ours when I was at school. But if that’s the rule then it’s the rule. It’s only going to be a relatively short performance, surely for one feed it can be worked around.

I don’t mean when I was at school…I meant my kids.

Because as you said albeit sarcastically “it’s life”. Not everyone can get to do everything they want in life all the time at the time that suits them.

Me me me me me! To hell with the rest of the parents that want to hear their children! Just bulky your way in!
This thread is such a reflection of our selfish society!

It’s not about what the audience thinks of this piece of theatre: it’s about the performers, to whom it IS a big deal.

Interesting the different takes on who the nativity is for. I've always seen them and experienced them as a festive family, school, community get together with a backdrop of kids dressing up, singing some Christmas songs, falling over, forgetting lines. It has been a cheerful, celebratory atmosphere but quite ramshackle and relaxed. I don't recognise the style of nativity others describe where there mustn't be a peep or a murmur and the expectation of a high level performance. Glad the ones I went to were more informal. Breastfeeding mums and siblings would have been most welcome, in fact they had craft tables set up at the back for the little ones.

@NastyPastie
You're welcome!

My dd is in Y4 now so I've been trekking up to class assemblies, shows and performances for years now.

I've never seen a performance ruined or even interrupted by a sibling or child in the audience. And I've had plenty of experience!

Much more irritating is a parent with a cough!!

In this day and age? Sorry that’s completely irrelevant. Children have cried through things since time immemorial .You’re getting yourself worked up over nothing

All I have suggested is to clarify with the HT. not turn up at school ‘parroting’ anything, not barging into the hall, not anything of the sort. I have suggested that there is no legal basis to a blanket sibling ban and that if challenged, the HT would struggle to justify the ban as there is no reason (from a safeguarding or health and safety) point of view why a 4 month old baby on mum’s lap couldn’t be admitted to the school play. ‘It might cry’ doesn’t count as a safeguarding concern. If a parent were to complain about being unable to attend due to the fact that they were a bf mother and siblings were ‘banned’ I think the LA and DfE advice would be to use professional judgement here to allow the parent to watch the event.

I don’t think it smacks of ‘me me me’ or entitlement. I never had any issue breastfeeding any of my children at weddings, funerals, school plays… no drama, just got on with it. No issue. The school have made it an issue and are out of their depth if the parent chose to challenge it.

saying my advice is unsupportive of the OP is your opinion, not fact. My intention is to be supportive, and I can’t predict the future or know how certain scenarios would play out if the parent turned up with the baby without resolving the issue beforehand. Looking ‘like a *’ might be a price to pay for challenging what you feel is unfair.

When my children were this age I was leaving them with my husband for several hours on a Saturday afternoon to go to work. I used to express milk and my husband would give them the bottle. It does take a bit of practice for them to get used to it, but if you start now hopefully this would get your child used to it before the performance and it will give you more freedom if any other similar occasions arise.

I’ve mainly been on the thread about the legal aspect of this, and I don’t mind siblings being taken personally but understand the point about disruption.

what is really irritating me is that people seem to think breastfeeding is a better reason to take a sibling than any other reason.

if a bf mother cannot leave her baby because she is bf the baby, she can decline if she can’t take her baby.

if a formula feeding mother cannot leave her baby because he the baby is only 7 days old, or she simply doesn’t have childcare for an older child, she would have to decline if the only legitimate reason for an exception was breastfeeding. I think that’s an appalling approach.

both women are in the position that they simply cannot go without the sibling so why should one mother be more important because she is breastfeeding? Horrible and so disrespectful to other women.