Anybody else just think patriotism is bollocks?

[Changeyncchange]

World cup got me thinking. I just feel no affinity to England as a concept. I was raised by 2nd gen immigrants who supported their parents international teams and the background of most of the kids at my school were similar so we didn't really get into it there.

Neither do I have no affinity to my grandparents country having not been since I was a child, I know many people from that country and immigration is still common but neither they nor I see us as sharing a nationality.

I just don't see the point. I think my own example shows how arbitrary and meaningless the whole concept of nationality and patronism is.

I'm interested to know if this is a quirk of my heritage or do others with different, more "English", backgrounds feel similar.

God that OP is horribly written. Apologies for the grammar, I did a bit of cutting and pasting.

This is how you feel because of your own heritage it doesn't mean patriotism is bollocks

I’m born and bred in U.K. white British heritage.

I also think Patriotism is bollocks.

It's absolutely fine at sporting events like the World Cup but 95% of the time it's bollocks, and can lead to shady places and ideologies.

American patriotism especially seems so strange to me, they can be so fervent with their flagpoles outside their homes and all that stuff.

Reminds me of this scene from Drop Dead Gorgeous.

Indeed, I understand there are different views.

So what does it mean to you? I've never understood things like "proud to be English/British". It's just such an odd thing to be proud of, I just am English because I was born here. Would I be proud to be British if my grandparents were born here? Again, seems odd.

Nope.
I'm English (not british) and my heritage means a lot to me.

Oh my god I forgot about that film, I love it so much! Will have to try and find it.

Yeah patriotism in powerful countries is pretty ugly and menacing. Thinking US, China, Russia.

Yes my heritage means a lot to me. I am proud of traditional British values such as tolerance, fairness, and even queuing.

Do you think eg French, Moroccan, Kenyan, Ukrainian etc people feeling patriotism is bollocks too? Or is this a general diss on the UK?

Why? Seriously?

My heritage means fuck all to me. Why would it? It exists and I am aware of it but I don't even understand the concept of "meaning a lot" to somebody.

I cannot wrap my head around it.

I hate all that flag waving sporting rubbish and tribalism. But my family goes back hundreds of years here, back beyond what is traceable, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish. It's not a matter of 'being proud' of being British, I just am.

When I walk the hills, or see the coast or an old town or read the history and know my forefathers and mothers were part of that, I know I am part of it too, it's just who I am. We are meant, rightly, to respect others' cultures and backgrounds, why should I trash mine?

Yes, I thought it was clear from my OP that I think it's all meaningless bollocks.

YANBU, I think it's bollocks too.

But humans are inherently tribalistic, so it makes sense that some of that would persist throughout the ages. For some people their sense of 'belonging' only really applies to geography. 'This part of the world is important to me because I'm from here'.

I’m Irish, I’m England. I love seeing all the fans coming together from various countries working together and cheering their teams on. I’ve been to various sports matches and minus the minority who cause trouble it’s usually a great fun atmosphere.

*in England

Im quite proud of my local area. Ive done lots of volunteer work and feel like there is a good community looking out for each other and making it a better place.
I think thats the closest I get.

When I walk the hills, or see the coast or an old town or read the history and know my forefathers and mothers were part of that, I know I am part of it too, it's just who I am. We are meant, rightly, to respect others' cultures and backgrounds, why should I trash mine?

I am not disrespecting anything.

If I went back to my grandparents country I doubt I would feel like you. This is what I mean by "bollocks" it's just so arbitrary. So because my grandparents moved here I cannot think "my forefathers were part of this" but equally when I go where my forefathers were... well I'm not part of that.

Then I wonder what the "being part of" even means and its just more words with little to no meaning.

YANBU to feel how YOU feel, but YABVVU to say "it's all bollocks".

I am mixed race and feel very strong links to all parts of my heritage. I am very proud of my ethnicity, I learnt a lot about both sides growing up and still learn lots now.

I don’t understand patriotism and don’t feel it.

I was born at a certain latitude and longitude at a certain time. I didn’t inherit any culture based on the political jurisdiction I emerged into, I just began to exist. I just regard borders an inconvenience really.

Belonging to a place happens at multiple levels - your street, your town, city or village, county, country, continent, planet - which one really counts? Which one should I wave my patriot flag for ?

I don’t feel like I belong anywhere, no sense of home at all. Wherever I am, I still inhabit the same bones of my skull, and that’s the only place I can call home.

1st gen of immigrants. I feel very patriotic at sporting events and do feel “ proud to be British” at certain moments but at the same time I do criticize things sometimes however trying to be respectful.
I don’t like blind patriotism. It’s very dangerous concept.

@Changeyncchange Just because it's total bollocks to you as is religion, in my opinion doesn't mean it does to me or others.
I'm very proud of my Grandpa who fought in the First World War, then came home and raised a family during the depression - including burying two dead babies. He and my Grandma were amazing.

Me too.

Same

I'm very proud of my Grandpa who fought in the First World War, then came home and raised a family during the depression - including burying two dead babies. He and my Grandma were amazing.

And that sounds very sad, but very much not related at all to nationality. Indeed I bet there were men in dozens of countries with identical stories.

That's much more articulate than I have put it but exactly my sentiment.

Maybe your heritage doesn't seem important to you because of your background? Just throwing it out there. You don't feel affinity because your ancestral home clearly wasn't good enough to convince your ancestors not to leave. Equally, you don't feel affinity for your current one because your family has not been here all that long.

Generally it takes many generations for a family to truly feel settled in and part of their "new" country. You say your parents supported your grandparents' national teams. You don't. That's a sign of this natural progression, you're an interim generation who doesn't feel they fully belong anywhere.