Anybody else just think patriotism is bollocks?

[Changeyncchange]

World cup got me thinking. I just feel no affinity to England as a concept. I was raised by 2nd gen immigrants who supported their parents international teams and the background of most of the kids at my school were similar so we didn't really get into it there.

Neither do I have no affinity to my grandparents country having not been since I was a child, I know many people from that country and immigration is still common but neither they nor I see us as sharing a nationality.

I just don't see the point. I think my own example shows how arbitrary and meaningless the whole concept of nationality and patronism is.

I'm interested to know if this is a quirk of my heritage or do others with different, more "English", backgrounds feel similar.

Honestly, you are so wrong. When I hear the bagpipes or go to the Highlands I feel so insanely proud of Scotland it can make my hair stand on end.

And equally, I can feel very English and proud of London when I am there.

You don’t need to be patriotic. It’s not a rule. But it is life enhancing to be proud of your heritage. Flags mean a lot - look at Ukraine, their flags are literally helping them find courage and pride in seriously dark times - but again you don’t need to feel that way.

I have two but they are both meaningful to me. I feel lucky in many ways too.

I suppose if you feel like it’s irrelevant it’s hard to understand why others feels differently.

I think loving your country and feeling good about the positive things it has accomplished is great. Supporting your country in sports is fine.

It's when being from a particular country makes you think you're better than others that it gets dangerous and tips over into the kind of nationalism that is such a menace right now. So broadly speaking I'd say patriotism is like alcohol - enjoy it in moderation, respect its potential for harm.

I think patriotism to a nation is different to supporting a national team.

I fervently support my national team because they're usually shite which seems to have hit a good streak and it's a joy to watch.

That's nothing to do with how I feel about our country as a whole though.

Yes my heritage means a lot to me. I am proud of traditional British values such as tolerance, fairness

Shame the Tory party done share those values.

I never support England in any sport. People can't handle it, it blows their minds. Men have gotten visibly angry over it

It's actually very common for 2nd and 3rd gen to be bit... Everything and nothing.
You are mix of cultures, it's hard to get patriotic about them all so naturally it tones down.

It's not that patriotism is bollocks.

Maybe your heritage doesn't seem important to you because of your background?

Which is exactly what I said in my OP so it's hardly you "throwing" something out there. 😉

You don't feel affinity because your ancestral home clearly wasn't good enough to convince your ancestors not to leave

😂 again you need to read my OP properly. I have no affinity to that place either so you'll have to be more creative with your snark.

God you need some of that self depreciating British humour I hear so much about.

I love when people tell me these values when I asked what they are and usually that discussion included aome great anti immigration opinions 😂
It was great topic around Brexit. I am of course apparently that good immigrant, they don't mean me to go home😂

It’s one thing I love about London. It’s a mix and I’m part of it as are other nationalities. I feel British and other nationality and part of London at same time. Things make me proud and positive etc. I think it must be harder to feel negative and stay where you are.

I still feel hugely patriotic towards my birth country, though I've lived in England for decades. We were raised to be proud of our country and would sing our anthem /recite the pledge weekly in school.

I'm amazed how many British /English/ however they identify children don't even know the words to the country's anthem as a minimum when I love watching Britishness in full flow when there are state events.

My child, born here, also identifies more with my nationality than her Britishness 🤷🏾‍♂️.

Nothing in this thread has made me think I am missing out.

Well their kids will probably end up like me! Baffled and amused by the whole idea.

I can understand being proud of something you've done, made, achieved, contributed to, etc - anything from making a cake to raising children but pride of being born somewhere? Don't get that at all - you have nothing to take personal pride in, do you?

Do you think people from other countries didn't also do those things?

I think @pointythings is spot on.

Patriotism = bollocks.

Cheering on a football team = not bollocks.

I like it 👌

I think some people believe that if you’re not patriotic that must mean you’re disdainful or ashamed of your country.

I’m not ‘proud’ of being born somewhere, because that was entirely an accident of birth and had nothing to do with anything I did. It wasn’t an achievement. I can find things I like about any country, as well as things I dislike about them.

So, is there anything outside yourself, that you take any pride in or feel any loyalty to protect and defend?

I think some people believe that if you’re not patriotic that must mean you’re disdainful or ashamed of your country.

Definitely. I enjoy being British/English and living here. There are a few countries I would have rather been born in and lot more I'm glad I wasn't born in.

That's as much as I can do.

I think it's perfectly possible to feel a love for your country and heritage because it's where you're from. I struggle with the concept of "patriotism" because to me that implies someone thinking their country is better than other countries.

Sure. The people I care about, causes I’ve chosen to commit to, and the things I’ve personally achieved that have required actual input on my part.

I think pride and loyalty very different to wanting to "protect and defend". Most people want to protect their way of life, which, at the most extreme, would mean defending their country of either birth or residence if it came under attack. That's why Ukraine will prevail against all the odds.

Okay but when you love your country what are you loving?

Is it the things the Government does? Britain does some great things but also some terrible things.

The people? James Corden is British.