To think our expectations of childbirth are too high?

[RimmersLoveMonster]

Just that really. It’s inherently agonisingly painful and dangerous, but a lot of posters seem to be surprised that it is and feel traumatised afterwards. I think our expectations around birth are unrealistic and that women are being sold a fantasy by ‘positive birth’ companies and pictures of pools with twinkly lights etc. This then leads to disappointment when their experience doesn’t go that way. AIBU?

Your response is absolutely bonkers! It really is! There has been no healthcare for most of history, so yes, birth has evolved to be hazardous for women for most of history. You quite clearly outline some of the reasons it is hazardous in your post. Healthcare alleviates these hazards. As you also outline.

I have never read such a bizarrely illogical post as yours. Ever. You literally present a stream of evidence to support my position, then conclude you’ve countered it.

Bizarre!

Its not bizarre at all. You have implied in your post that childbirth in the UK in 2022 is the most dangerous awful thing a woman can go through.

I pointed out that we have medical care that prevents a vast majority of death in pregnancy and childbirth therefore saying that childbirth is still the most dangerous and painful thing a woman can experience in the UK is patently nonsensical. We have one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world.

@AutumnScream whilst it may be hugely safer than developing countries in the UK, it's nowhere near as safe as it should be. Again, thanks to lots of the issues raised on this thread. Shocking.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/16/uk-has-second-highest-maternal-death-rate-in-eight-country-european-study

Judging by many posts on here, women expect childbirth to be awful and are afraid of it, they have little in the way of positive expectations. Hopefully a lot of them have an easy and fairly joyful experience.

I'm not sure that Mumsnet is particularly helpful in this regard, nor with new babies. There is better information elsewhere. I'm eternally grateful there was no internet when I was pregnant and gave birth to a baby. I knew all the facts, kept myself healthy, was fortunate to have no difficulties and sailed through it all. However help was available if I needed it and so it should be for everyone.

Isn’t about three quarters of mums that have more than one child? Surely that means quite a lot of pregnant women have a good idea what childbirth is like?

I had a good childbirth experience in Newry, Northern Ireland. The hospital staff were excellent, the labour was pretty quick and, even though my epidural didn’t work, the gas and air worked really well for taking away the contraction pain. The only complaint I had really was that my dose of pitocin was upped too much when my main midwife went for lunch so my contractions increased way too quickly compared to what they had been. I also wasn’t prepared for the pain that came when baby started moving out. Gas and air did nothing for that.

Another issue I have is that there is no follow up care for mum at all after the first couple of weeks. I did get referred to a pelvic floor physio but I wish there was a follow up appointment at 6 months or even a year post partum just to see how everything else healed. Even a phone call would do.

I agree with you and it completely worked for me.

I haven't RTFT but I just wanted to share my lovely childbirth education lady's exercise. She had us write every single thing we wanted for the birth down on ten pieces of paper. Like:

Drug free
At home
Calm
Etc.

Essentially our birth plan. Then led us through an exercise where she said, "oops there's an issue, tear up two pieces" until we were left with one each. Every last remaining piece of paper said, "baby is OK" or some version of that. It probably wouldn't be great for people whose babies weren't OK but it really helped me with my induction, three day painfest, CS, projectile vomiting extravaganza of shit!!! I kept thinking, "there goes another piece of paper". And DD was OK in the end. I know people who went through similar and ended us with PTSD. I do believe that having reasonable expectations is key.

PTSD isn’t caused by being naive it’s caused by trauma.

I've delivered three babies vaginally. One at home unassisted (BBA whilst awaiting midwife) which was amazing and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Two in hospital (twin birth). Second was awful and traumatising, not because the labour or birth were that much different but because of the dehumanising way in which I was treated by the midwife and medical team. I felt less than human and couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there and home.
Trauma isn't just about the nuts and bolts of how you gave birth. It's also about how you were treated interpersonally during a vulnerable time.

What it boils down to is not that womens expectations of childbirth are too high, its that the medical care in a developed country are sub par and failing women and babies.

Women shouldn't go into labour scared. They shouldn't be told interventions are always necessary or they have to do as they are told. They should go into it knowing they are safe with adequate medical attention if needed and treated with respect. Thats the real issue.

I felt really under informed with my first baby, I read all the books, went to midwife check ups etc etc but felt like no one actually sat me down and told me, "look, it is going to hurt". I felt like there was a lot of minimising the experience "yes, but you forget about the pain when you meet the baby"(you don't), just breathe through it, it helps so much (not that much it doesn't), TENS machine helps loads (bollocks it does),

The truth is it bloody hurt. I was pessary induced and maintain this was the most painful method to induce labour. I have since had a dry labour induced by drip after my waters went 2 days earlier and my last went into labour naturally (3 weeks late though!)

With my first, I was refused an epidural for several hours for no other reason than my midwife decided that I wasn't in enough pain to warrant it. By the time she finally decided I deserved pain relief (I had chewed through 2 adaptors for the gas and air, cried for an hour and apparently did a voice change reminiscent of a scene from the exorcist), I was given a-thankfully successful-epidural, but was unfortunately crowning. I couldn't push-I had to be cut, failed forceps and eventual ventouse delivery. Luckily DS was fine.

I feel like my 2nd and 3rd, I went in knowing the level of pain involved. Was really clear I did not want an epidural and went gas and air only for both. My second labour was honestly the best. Midwife was amazing, kept me so calm and it felt natural. My 3rd was so quick, but very painful.

Its been a while since I had mine, but I felt there was a strong assumption of "failing" if you needed pain relief, which I hope is no longer the case. No one should be left to suffer and pain really does vary from labour to labour even in the same person.

It's caused by how we process trauma.

I personally kept my expectations realistic because of friends who had recently given birth.
I agree the hypnobirthing movement etc. Is a bit of a marketing money maker, however that is just my experience and opinion, and I know of people who have genuinely found it useful and had the twinkly lights / water birth of their dreams.

I don't think I ever had any illusions.

I knew I would only ever do it once, and all I hoped for from the modern military-run regional hospital where I gave birth, was that ds and I come out alive, ds be pink & healthy and I'd be on my feet again in 6 months.

We achieved that. The whole 'wonderful birthing experience' rubbish is just to keep expectant mums calm while they wait to give birth.

There is a reason why we have 9-12 months maternity leave.

I mean both of these are true, but the strongest predictor of PTSD is the event, and it’s very important to be clear that “how we process trauma” is something that is to a significant extent out of our control because it depends on things like your inherent genetics, your past experiences particularly in childhood and your social supports following the trauma - you can only do so much about those before or after a birth. Meanwhile, however, healthcare provision could minimise the trauma of the events themselves by providing adequate levels of care. I’m not sure how much evidence there is for the role of expectations in PTSD - I’ve searched and not been able to find anything suggesting that they play a role - but by that logic PTSD in combat veterans sounds eminently preventable.

Well the feeling that you or someone you love or care about is going to die is a common theme in PTSD. That's not really preventable in veterans (because they might) or sex workers (because they might) but childbirth is safer than either of those things.

Minimising mother's stress and letting them know pain and struggle is NOT a sign things are going wrong may well be important.

Birth was the most horrific thing I ever experienced. There comes a point when the pain has reached its max and you have NO option but to push through. Also screw having a birth plan, I really wanted a water birth but I ended up getting pre-eclampsia during labour so I had to slowly walk past what would of been my room as you described dim lights with little stars and it looked amazing! However, with all that in mind, I would it again in a heart beat the whole experience was wild and unforgettable!

Hospital and NHS protocol for birth and labour plus the ward procedures and decided by men.

When a man experiences it then he can decide how and when etc
Until then why the bloody hell should they decide at x cm you can have x pain relief (epidural) but until then tough.
You wouldn't be told well this broken bone doesn't need pain relief or no nothing required for that burn/ cut etc in any other ward of the hospital.

No idea of these pictures you are talking about op what on earth have you been watching or reading to see all this?

I had no expectations as never been through it before and logic told me every birth can be different

Do people's brains go out the window when pregnant? Or is it blamed on the usual word 'hormones'

Investing in maternity care isn’t just about the experience of birth. It’s about preventing all the fallout from a badly supported mismanaged birth: the need for surgery, postnatal depression (the poor state of maternity care in the UK has to be a huge factor in that), postpartum psychosis, PTSD, incontinence, prolapses, the knock on effects of all that on womens’ long term health and the impacts on their families and economic productivity. But all that fallout is mismanaged too.

I find the idea that we should abandon all plans and expectations weird. I had planned homebirths for all three of mine. After the first I realised that I’d been lucky in that I had a supportive GP who was actually present at the birth but midwives weren’t great, refused to let me give birth in pool, made me push before I was ready resulting in a tear and had I been overdue or laboured for longer would have had little support. Had independent midwives for 2 and 3. Consistent support and relationships, no hospital or GP visits apart from two scans so no conflicting advice or rude midwives, and two long but natural water births with no tearing. Number 3 was 42+ 4 and again there would have been huge pressure for induction as he was late and quite big. I realise of course that there was an element of luck but I also know that I avoided the stress of being pressured into decisions and had brilliant post natal care. Paid in instalments so fairly affordable and best money I’ve ever spent. Planning, engaging and taking control can have a huge impact on the experience and subsequent feelings about birth.

I thought the whole birth experience was amazing, am I unusual? It is roughly 44.5 years since I gave birth but I still remember every bit of it with great excitement. Yes it was nice, and right, to have time off work for months afterwards because having a baby means adding another dimension to life and adjusting to it.

I don’t think we’re sold an image of birth being a lovely experience but you do tend to go into it with the unrealistic expectation that you’ll have a midwife coaching you through it and checking on the baby regularly. That someone who knows what the fuck is happening to you will be keeping an eye out.

I did hypnobirthing with my second and it helped me feel like I had some agency in the process rather than feeling helpless, abandoned and not coping. I knew second time round I’d need to rely mostly on myself.

No - YANBU. Telling women that labour can be a good experience, then sending them into a hot, understaffed maternity unit for a 4 day induction extravaganza....