To think our expectations of childbirth are too high?

[RimmersLoveMonster]

Just that really. It’s inherently agonisingly painful and dangerous, but a lot of posters seem to be surprised that it is and feel traumatised afterwards. I think our expectations around birth are unrealistic and that women are being sold a fantasy by ‘positive birth’ companies and pictures of pools with twinkly lights etc. This then leads to disappointment when their experience doesn’t go that way. AIBU?

🙄 I was fully invested. For 52 hours. I’m just refuting the idea that hypnobirthing courses are honest about birth: the one I did certainly wasn’t. And it doesn’t matter how “invested” the mother is in hypnobirthing because as it turns out, the baby hasn’t done the course and neither has the cervix.

@FishnetsNightdressCrisis can I be nosey and ask if it was just a choice thing for you, or was there a medical reason?

That’s really reassuring, I’m glad your recovery was quick. Especially twice! I think vaginal birth is made out like it’s easy, whereas CS people suggest it’s this horrible, huge, life changing major surgery. It is major abdominal surgery but so much more controlled, by everything I’ve read. Sure things can go wrong but I am sure I also saw somewhere that most ob-gyns would opt for one for themselves which I found to be interesting!

Scheduled vs unscheduled care. If there's no adequate ward for uterine surgery you postpone the op. If labour ward fills up you turn a large storage area into a bay. Both obs/gynae as well so no evidence misogyny.

No I think the issues were entirely caused by unpleasant, unprofessional, and/or unkind midwives.

If we were honest about the reality of giving birth in the UK all women would be flying to Spain/France at 36 weeks pregnant. Tbh I don't think British women's expectations are so very high but sadly they are rarely met.

Having trained as a midwife before I married I had absolutely no illusions about childbirth.I had seen all types of births.My DH on the other hand!!!.He told me stories of when he was abroad working in the merchant navy and how he had witnessed by accident a woman in China giving birth in a shop doorway, then being able to get up and walk within half an hour, women giving birth and back at work the next day blah blah, and his mother and his sister never seemed to have any problems giving birth etc.
Then after myself and our first baby nearly died during an emergency c section he changed his mind.In fact he was so traumatised that he rejoined the merchant navy when I told him I was pregnant with our second and last baby and stayed away until baby was two months old.This was again by emergency c section, he hardly mentioned it at all as he found 'it 'upsetting''.
Sorry to have mentioned husband or partners reaction.

Hard agree. My sister did a hypnobirthing course that actually said it's not pain it's 'power surges'. Having had 2 myself I bit my tongue because she wouldn't want to hear it. My mum tried to be realistic with her but she wasn't having it.

Cue her going into labour wholly unprepared for the actual horrendous pain and begging for an epidural and screaming at her husband to stop faffing around with the candles 🙃

Birth plans give the false idea that we can in any way control how our labour goes or how the baby comes out. Yes for some people it's easy and quick and magical. But I doubt that for most. Mine certainly weren't and as the first of my friends to have kids I didn't know what to expect. Subsequent friends of mine giving birth have appreciated my honest and frank description of birth (and after! Cos no one tells you about all the pain and blood and pain after!)

A "good" vaginal delivery is preferably to a section but you never know whether you will have a "good" vaginal delivery.

After my 2nd my MW refused to accept I needed a pee and I had to wait 4 hours to go to the loo. I think she thought I had a catheter in but I didn't. I was so unwell after DC2 nothing like that with the other 3. Refused to have her again she just seemed incompetent tbh. Kept flapping not what you need when in agony despite an epidural.

@happyfeet5 it wasn't for a physical medical reason, no. Labelled as maternal request. Physically I was probably in very good shape, mid 20s both times, healthy BMI, no health conditions. All those factors probably helped in my recoveries.

I don't think risks of vaginal deliveries are made explicit, whereas the NHS is very quick to state the risks of c-sections. Different risk profiles are preferable to different women.

Yabu to attempt to minimise and ridicule others' choices to the level of suggesting that it's all about whale music and scented candles. No one is stupid enough to believe it can ever be painless or that the aim is to have a magical adventure. Every woman I know wanted an experience where they were treated with dignity and respect and where their bodily autonomy was respected and to varying degrees very few were granted that.

It's pure misogyny to repeat this nonsense which is spouted to place the blame for mass underfunding and marginalisation of women's issues upon women. This bullshit is just propaganda which seeks to imply that women are hysterical and should not be trusted to know and trust our own bodies to the extent that making choices for ourselves should not be within our power

It is incredibly dangerous and that part seems to be completely ignored, so I totally agree with you. We’re all being sold the idea of these zen like births that are a wonderful experience and for a lot of us that isn’t the case.
Giving birth nearly resulted in me bleeding to death and my son had to be resuscitated. I’d never do it again tbh.
I always took the whole experience seriously, but I wasn’t prepared for the trauma I’d leave with.

Excellent post @Bubblepunk

Exactly.

I had an EMCS and the midwife basically said to me, it’ll be utterly horrendous but you need to get out of bed. It’ll help. And I was like, hmm ok. But my son was in intensive care, so I quite literally had to get out of bed to go and see him, no one helped me (aside from DH in visiting of course) it would take me so long to get to his room. But in two days I actually felt fine.

I honestly don’t know any other type of major surgery where they would say ‘get out of bed, it’ll help’ like none. Stomach muscles ripped open right through layers of skin etc. it’s insane and I have friends who really suffered after their c sections. But mine was fine and my recovery was pretty swift.

YANBU. I really hate it when women say ‘every woman is built to give birth vaginally’ and claim that because they managed to give birth to a 10lb baby with no painkillers, then all women should be able to. They lack compassion for women who tear and are close to death or disabled from childbirth. Apparently this would’ve been avoided had they practised their breathing.

This bullshit is just propaganda which seeks to imply that women are hysterical and should not be trusted to know and trust our own bodies to the extent that making choices for ourselves should not be within our power

What choices are you referring to? There’s very little ‘choice’ in childbirth, short of opting for an ELCS from the get go.

Definitely agree OP. “Natural” birth is seen as the perfect ideal which, if not achieved, (ideally without pain relief) means that one hasn’t given birth “properly”. It’s toxic and so, so wrong. Nature is cruel. Babies die. Mothers die. Natural isn’t always good.

I will say though the more pertinent issue is the godawful standard of maternity care in the UK at the moment. We all deserve better.

The birth was traumatising enough, but the aftercare from the insensitive beastly midwives was worse (I’ve met lovely midwives too- just not during my after care or induction). Given I’d nearly died, was suffering from kidney failure from severe dehydration and other issues (thanks to their neglect while I was left to labour on the induction ward) and was recovering from a EMCS & attempted forceps, you’d think they’d be willing to get me a glass of water after dp went home to rest after 4 days of watching me fail to give birth- no! 2 hours after finally having my catheter and drip removed, I was expected to walk out of the ward to re-fill my water jug as I’d “recover faster if I moved”. They just refused to help. I couldn’t get out of the bed I was so weak. It wasn’t until the consultants came to talk to me about the fact my kidneys weren’t recovering as expected that I finally got my water jug (consultant fetched it himself). Never mind the headless and degrading commentary as they had to monitor my urine production.

if I ever have another then I’ll be an elective and I’ll be going home as soon as humanly possible.

What choices are you referring to? There’s very little ‘choice’ in childbirth, short of opting for an ELCS from the get go.

It's not really presented as a 'choice' though, is it? It's not like you go to the booking appointment and the midwife asks you if you'd prefer a c-section?

There would be more choice with much better resourced maternity units. Better access to epidurals with more anaesthetists, more birthing pools, not having to fight to have a c-section as opposed to forceps etc etc.

All of them?

Post op mobilisation is recommended for most major surgery now

@BaBaBarelle what’s different about France and Spain?

Nope. DD1's birth was utterly amazing. No pain, just pressure. Not too long at 18 hours - 12 at home. I felt so strong and powerful in a uniquely female way. I am woman, hear me roar!

DD2's was painful. I needed gas and air. I had PGP with her and my last trimester prep was negatively impacted with that. She was obviously not in the best position. A lot quicker at 12 hours - 10 at home.

Oh really! That’s interesting! I’d presumed you’d be told to stay in bed lol. Well it worked for me for sure. Lady in the bed next to me didn’t move for a week and really suffered despite midwives encouraging her to get up.

@Topgub all fine and dandy, except when you’ve been awake for many days in agonising pain, also physically draining yourself in an attempt to push a stubborn child out, and go through various health issues leading to a major operation, then having no recovery time whatsoever because you’re instantly in charge of a newborn, there’s absolutely no sensitivity to the fact you might not be capable of getting up and walking about for the first day or two. Dp had more compassion to his need to rest after having an operation.

@drkpl

Im fully in favour of sending babies home with dads to let mum recover

Other people aren't as keen 😂