England Taking The Knee

[JimmyKrankie]

Thoughts on the team taking the knee??

I'm in no way racist, I don't care what colour someone's skin is, I have and always will judge people as people, but this really gets to me and I don't agree with the whole knee thing.

What do you think?

Tbh its the bloody least they can do if they are attending this shambles of a tournament

I can kind of see this. I used to be of the view: 'I don't see colour and don't think we should emphasise it or make a big deal out of it.' I grew up as a white person in a country in Africa and many of my friends were black, some were white. I didn't notice skin colour any more than I would notice hair colour.

However, I now see that disregarding skin colour is something you can only do if you are privileged enough to do so. If you're black you will be treated unfavourably/ unfairly/ unkindly at various times. Just look at how the black footballers were treated after the Euro final. So yes, taking the knee in football is important to make a point. As are other stances - but FIFA was not permitting those. Do what you can, take the opportunities given to you. This was one and I'm glad they took it.

I’m pleased they did it, and I hope they continue to use the platform they have to make gestures that are anti racist.

I think it’s appalling FIFA are banning any (other) form of visible protest at this utterly corrupt World Cup.

I think talk (and in this case, knees) are cheap. If they wanted to prove they gave a fuck about human rights (migrants, LGBT, women) they would refuse to participate in this game.

Generally, I don't see anything wrong with it the way it started in the states though.

They really care about human rights and LGBTQ community, until that care costs them, then they drop it

I think they just want to go and play football. If they cared that much about human rights they wouldn't have set foot in Qatar.

I don't have a problem them going to play football but the virtue signalling makes me uncomfortable. Kneeling is an act of subservience- why should our footballers do that?

Here to see if OP returns 🍿

I'm in no way racist

Then no big deal if they take the knee or they don’t is there? Happy days.

Not bothered either way. No idea why people get so angry about it.

Kneeling is an act of subservience- why should our footballers do that?

I think the origin story of taking the knee is in NCAA football, where they play the US national anthem before every match. A player took the knee during the anthem as a visible protest - refusing to stand and show respect for an anthem when he felt his life was not respected and protected in the country.

I think FIFA are permitting the knee as it's not a direct comment against Qatari 'values' as pretty much every country is tackling racism. However 'one love ' is more directly an affront to Muslim culture and therefore not permitted. In terms of not understanding why the teams have abandoned the arm band, it's because the players would be given yellow cards which isn't fair on the individuals or the team. That's FIFA's fault and I don't think anyone should be going after the teams for this. If they were going to get yellow cards for taking the knee then I doubt they would have done that either.

Don't be ridiculous. They are there to play football and win. What would be the point of not playing? Plenty of opportunity to show allegiance to freedoms

I felt like it was a bit pointless today. They didn't wear the arm bands because they were told they'd get in trouble if they did, so would have done the same if the knee wasn't allowed?

Basically, only doing a corporately approved protest, doesn't feel like much of a protest

The Qatari Royal family and the Qatari govenment has decided which protests are acceptable.

I'd say the same thing in other circumstances, OP, because more and more I'm beginning to see that this is all part of the same noise; the same bigger picture. It's a picture of constant virtue signaling without much to do with actual practical fighting against whatever particular injustice we are wearing, gesturing, 'avataring', picture filtering, lanyard-wearing or symbolically standing against. #BLM is becoming TWAW, it's becoming poppy policing, it's become checking to see who is and isn't announcing pronouns on their email signature. It's about arresting people holding up blank pieces of paper at a monarch's funeral. It's a culture of enforced conformity, which in any democratic society is authoritarian and problematic.

In general, people don't like being told what to say or think, and this policy is ultimately bound to backfire. You're seeing now that failure to adhere to this forced conformity is getting you replies such as 'I'm not a racist, so why should it bother me?' I see in my everyday working life pressure to carry some sign of your adherence to particular beliefs/ideology or be branded a 'bigot'.

These different strands of the same basic premise are not separate.

Football is the one context in which I disagree with you. Historically it's had appalling problems with racism, and racism's still a thinly-disguised prejudice (sadly there's a lot of it right here on MN). If taking the knee is necessary in any context, it's necessary with this one. But I do get where you're coming from.

Is taking the knee a protest? I think it's just a show of support, like wearing a rainbow armband in a normal premier league game. You're just saying "I support oppressed group."

Exactly right. I think the players have been put in a very unfair position on this- the blame lies with FIFA.

Virtue signalling. Doesn't achieve anything.

What else does this overpaid/over-exposed sport do to combat racism or any other prejudice? They have the eyes of the world on them, so much potential for positive role modelling. Where are they with that exactly?

Good on them for doing so.

Well they are supporting Black players and standing against racism, I mean somebody who isn't racist should have realised this.

It's hard to think of a less offensive, less inconvenient and more peaceful way to express protest than kneeling.

I find it almost impossible to really see what there is about this small gesture that riles people up.

It’s the Iranian players we need to salute today by their refusal to sing their national anthem.

It’s not virtue signalling - it shows people that there are people out there that DO care and DO want change. That means a lot.

I normally hate the virtue signalling comments. But given they have quite clearly displayed that they will drop protests about causes they claim to really care about as soon as it requires something more than just a performative action, it feels like virtue signalling.