Worried about niece and new private school activities

[YellowMarigold]

My brother’s daughter, my DN is bright and enjoys sports. She has a younger brother at primary. Sadly her mum passed away with cancer three years ago. At the advice of her primary DN did a test and got a scholarship to a local private school and her fees are almost completely covered by a means tested bursary. Nobody in the family has experience of private schools and there are a few things that don’t sit right with me that worry me.

There is a lot of sport. The sport in the school day is fine but at least once a week she plays a match against another school and is often not back at school until 6.30pm on the coach. It takes her an hour to get home on another coach, then homework and she practices an instrument. Every Saturday she also plays another sport against other schools. If it is an away match she is often gone all day. There is no choice about playing these matches. She has been told it’s part of school. She was encouraged to audition for a school play and got a part. The rehearsals are after school and on weekends so she often finishes late rehearsing and now is rehearsing on Sunday afternoons. She leaves home at 7am every day to get a bus that takes an hour. It isn’t an hour’s journey but the bus collects children from all over so it’s a lot of travel time. There is a lot of homework.

My worries are:
My DN does not seem to have any down time. She and her brother used to come to spend time with my kids at the weekend. She misses us and texts that she is sad she is busy all the time. She has cried on the phone to me several times and always says she didn’t know it would be such a long day and she finds it very hard. She asks me if secondary school is always so hard and I don’t know what to say. I know she is getting amazing chances from an academic point of view but it feels off balance.

My brother makes her food and keeps it warm, they hardly eat as a family. She isn’t doing more than the other kids, this is the standard. These are not optional clubs. Maybe I’m being overprotective because she has already lost her mum at a young age, but is this too much pressure and too much time in school? She has huge rings under her eyes and has difficulty sleeping because she feels stressed about school. Today she text me to ask if she has to go to her rehearsals. I don’t want to interfere but I don’t want to see her suffer and say nothing.

What a lot of tosh posted upthread about private school preparing you for "C-suite" careers.

I was lucky enough to be educated privately and so were our DCs. The point of my education (particularly as a woman in the 1970s) was to instil confidence that I could achieve what I wanted in life if I put in the effort. It certainly was NOT to prepare me for a corporate director-level job.

My contemporaries became fashion designers, politicians, doctors, astrologists, lawyers, journalists, bankers, engineers, secretaries, nurses, artists, actors, farmers, editors, cooks ... a huge range of different jobs. Some didn't follow any particular career at all.

DH is C-suite -- and went to a state school.

@Tulipomania I couldn't agree more.

@Tulipomania absolutely. That echoes my experience as well. Although some of the parents at private schools now seem a lot more pushy & sharp-elbowed than they were in the 70s/80s. There’s been a demographic shift.

@Tulipomania

I was lucky enough to be educated privately and so were our DCs. The point of my education (particularly as a woman in the 1970s) was to instil confidence that I could achieve what I wanted in life if I put in the effort. It certainly was NOT to prepare me for a corporate director-level job.

You're spot on with this.

What private school gives you is:

• A much higher chance of studying with other children who are focused and want to succeed and lower chance of disruptions
• A much richer selection of extra-curricular opportunities
• Better organisation
• Smaller classes, more attention
• Peers will be wealthier (which is obviously a double-edged sword and it has its downsides)

It doesn't follow that academics will always be better at private school (although they often are). Many state schools are academically excellent.

The question is whether this confers an advantage on the child. Bright, confident children with supportive parents will generally flourish anywhere. Private really comes into its own with children who don't have as much confidence and don't have access to these opportunities outside school.

With girls in particular, though, private is often worth it because it allows girls a degree of support and focus which they might struggle to get in the state sector.

It’s worth the niece giving the school a bit more time. If she is still struggling at Easter then I would be really concerned.

I’m conscious that the OP’s brother is a widower with two children. It may be that he needs his daughter to do fairly long days at school for him to be able to keep the show on the road.

A friend is a single mum and I remember her saying that if she could have sent her children to private school she would have - simply because it would have meant that they did all their activities in school and she wouldn’t have had to juggle giving them lifts to and from various sports.

@CruCru

A friend is a single mum and I remember her saying that if she could have sent her children to private school she would have - simply because it would have meant that they did all their activities in school and she wouldn’t have had to juggle giving them lifts to and from various sports.

I can relate to this. I'm a single parent and have sent my daughter to private secondary (even though it may bankrupt me) because I can outsource quite a lot of the school-related stuff I don't have time to do during the working day.

I think with a bright motivated child with supportive parents in a two-parent family or particularly a family with a SAHP the need for this would be far less acute. I simply have far less time to help with homework, organise sporting fixtures, music lessons etc than I would in a two-parent family. Even with private parental support is still needed obviously but it cuts down a lot on the need to spend your free time organising stuff because the resource isn't there internally.

I worried a lot that my DD's education would suffer due to my being a one-parent family and lacking the time and attention to devote to this support. I'm under no illusions that children are automatically taught better at private school (I don't think they are) but I do think the state sector is so under-resourced that it gives both of us a better chance to focus on what we need to do. Whether it turns out to be worth the money or not remains to be seen.

Sounds normal to me. Would be at my dc private school. My dc schedule is the same except that my dc loves their competitive sport and music practice isn't a big deal in our house so it kind of is the down time. What should down time consist of? As long as the dc enjoy themselves keeping them busy all day is fine.
My dc cousin is at a state school and finishes at 3:30 everyday and just watches tv until bed. I can't see them benefitting more from that schedule if I'm honest?

I work in a private school this is the norm and she will have lots of extra holiday to make up for it. She will be having the time of her life and the opportunities she will experience from the private school far out weigh anything a state school could offer her. Watch her thrive and succeed in life. I’d rather my kids had all their free time taken up with sport and instrument lessons rather than face time and I pads

Seems like a normal schedule to me, both from my own experience and from my DC.

Think of it this way, otherwise most children would just stare at screens all night and I'm not sure they're really happy as such doing that either.

I work in a private school this is the norm and she will have lots of extra holiday to make up for it. She will be having the time of her life and the opportunities she will experience from the private school far out weigh anything a state school could offer her. Watch her thrive and succeed in life. I’d rather my kids had all their free time taken up with sport and instrument lessons rather than face time and I pads @Celestialmoonface

this is awful advice, truly awful. The child is overwhelmed, has lost her mother and is stating that she’s unhappy. At what point is she having the time of her life?

i get that a private education is, often, better than a state education but that’s only the case if the child isn’t depressed and chronically unhappy.

So if a kid isn't sporty, they're stuffed at a private school? And if they're not good at it they're going to be completely miserable?
I'm thinking of a young girl I know who's shaping up to be extremely academic, but who had dyspraxia.

I have to say that this thread depresses me a bit.

I would add that if she is struggling it is worth checking how "compulsory" it all is. Dd had a regular out of school music lesson in her first year for which she was allowed to miss part of the "compulsory" after school sports practice so I could collect her early. It did mean she rarely played matches which did not bother her although may have contributed to her feeling less part of the social group. The school published a calendar which highlighted which activities were priority if a child had a clash.

I went to a state school, bus at 7:15 got to school at 8:10, played netball, hockey, school plays, choir, prefect/headgirl duties , yearbook, school paper, GATS programme on Saturdays. I had an extra curricular every evening bar Fridays. Some of my friends were the same, others weren't. So she may have found state school the same if she's bright, sporty and interested in other things too.

Just check with her hi she is settling in.
I went from a state primary in the middle of a massive council estate to an assisted place in a private school. And it was a culture shock. Nothing was really the matter and the children were nice. I just get out of place. My mum wasn’t really understanding and I ended up leaving after a couple of years and going else where. I really regret this now. So it’s great she has you to talk to and encourage her.
No private school but my son would have to wait around at school until 5 (went in the library and did homework and got something to eat) and then go to dance school in the city twice a week. Also had music or rehearsals on other days after school and clubs on a Saturday.
they get used to it after awhile.
she may not enjoy or like it now.
i would definitely go with your brother and speak with the school. Explain how different it is for her and see if she can maybe leave the play or ask what starships the other kids use to manage their time.

What sort of scholarship is she on? If it's a sports scholarship then there will be expectations that she plays to a certain level in the main school sports (e.g. hockey, netball), if it's a music scholarship then there will be conditions about playing in the orchestra, singing in a choir etc. If it's an academic scholarship then the participation in other stuff will be more optional. Many private schools will make certain things compulsory for Year 7s as a way to get them to integrate and socialise, normally after Year 7 these settle down and it's more sorted by actual interests and abilities.

She won't be the only one from a lower income family, by a long shot. There will be other kids on scholarships/bursaries, and many others who are paying the fees but it's a stretch and they're not wealthy.

Secondary school transition is often difficult regardless of the school. It is harder work and longer hours (with the travelling, homework, and extra activities) for most kids whether state or private. Most children settle down and get used to it within the first year.

Is there any option for her to get homework done during the bus journey or at lunchtime? Or for someone to pick her up when it's a late finish?

Strategies hahaha not starships

Totally normal. My DD is in Y2 and has just started a new private school which is more like this. She was at a local private prep which was more “family small environment, village school”.

Its been a real shock to her (and mine) system but she’s getting used to it now. The bus, the bigger school, going into different classrooms for different subjects (she just had one room at her last school)..

They,ve given her a part in the school play to include her she just has a few lines, they are really going out of their way to include her as she’s new and started after the half term.

Ive made full use of the support. Been in touch with pastoral care, her teacher, the bus driver on making her journeys nice and sitting with a girl of similar age (the school have asked a Y4 girl to be her bus buddy), even the food - she’s really fussy, they’ve even added a few of her favourite things to the specials menu for the whole school.

Its been a team effort and she had a brilliant week last week.. there’s lots of resources to tap into.

DD hasn’t got the pressure of all the sports yet they start in Y3 but she’ll be slowly prepared doing lunchtime clubs now, then starting to compete in Y3. She’s really excited about “earning her sparkly gymnastics costume”.

Definitely see if you can help her tap into the resources at the school it’s a game changer ❤️.

High pressured environments suit some children, but not all. She needs to know that if private schooling is not for her and she does not want to be doing activities/ schooling for long hours 6 days a week then that is fine. I have one child who would thrive in the environment and o e who wouldn't. It's ok to take a more chilled route in life.

I really think the key thing here is that your DN lost her mother just three years ago. Whilst her experience may be very normal for private school she is not (understandably) in the place to manage all this. I don’t know what her life was like before her mother died but now she has long days and comes home and seldom eats with her family.
The school should be aware of the trauma she has suffered and be supportive in creating an environment she can thrive in. She might benefit from counselling too. It’s wonderful she has you. I really hope she can speak to her dad and that together they can work with the school.

I spent the first few years of secondary on an academic and music scholarship at a private school and it was made very clear to me that I was expected to pay for that by doing everything music-related that was offered to the non-scholarship kids. It was actually a shit school academically - the non-scholarship kids would not have got into a school with genuine entrance requirements - and I am firmly of the view that they exploited my family's lack of understanding of the private school system in order to have kids like me propping up the wealthy low achievers. I was also expected to put up with the bullying and social exclusion that are the inevitable consequence of having my head constantly pushed above the parapet alongside coming from a very conspicuously different background (no horses!).

I'm not saying this is that but it is worth keeping an eye out for. Private schools do not give out scholarships out of the goodness of their hearts.

Normal for private school. But as a poster above said, she should also be getting the time to do her prep AT school, not at home. My DC's didn't do any prep at home during years 7 and 8, and now my Y9 DC does a few pieces at home during the week and maybe 2 hours on Saturday morning.

Also, as mentioned above, being exhuasted by now is also normal. Doing all that sport is part of why private is so great - they keep the kids moving and active all day, and give them the chances to excel that ALL children in this country should be getting.

I don't get why your DN can't eat with her dad when she gets home. 1830 for the evening meal is hardly late. And if she has younger siblings that need to eat earlier, perhaps her dad can supervise their food but actually eat with his eldest.

As her aunt, you can provide support to her and her father but it's ultimately his decision.

There seems to be an undercurrent of inverted snobbery on this thread about private education. The only difference between the days you're describing your DN has and another active, engaged child is that the school is organising all the non-academic stuff, rather than the parent. The transition to secondary is hard no matter where you go.

If she was enjoying it great, some kids probably thrive on it. She doesn't sound at all happy though, so I'd do what I'd do if I had a child in any school who was unhappy and think of other options. By all means give it a year before deciding. You could speak to your brother about the possibility now. He may not listen but you'll have done your best by your niece by speaking to him about it

I second the first term of any secondary being a tough one and this year has been particularly dismal which won’t have helped. I think that it’s important that her dad knows how she feels but I would suggest support for her because if she can stick with it there will be many opportunities for her. Mind did prep. and still found the secondary transition difficult and one of them stayed at the same school!
I used to send mine in with small, high energy snacks and dare I say it sugary snacks sometimes to keep their energy levels up and then let them sleep for the first few days of the holiday to recharge batteries. I hope she’ll end up loving it.

it does depend on the school, but whilst our private secondary school like to say that they expect everyone to do the extracurricular sport, it's not actually compulsory and they can't and don't do anything about it if you say no. But as her aunt you can't really interfere, this is between her and her dad and the school. The school should have a pastoral structre where your neice knows who she should be speaking to if there are problems. Her dad should contact that person and say that the extracurricular load is too much, and that until the school play is over and done with she won't be doing any extracurrilcular sport, and after that she can do the sports again if she chooses but he won't be making her. A child who has lost her mum does not need this level of stress in her life.