Worried about niece and new private school activities

[YellowMarigold]

My brother’s daughter, my DN is bright and enjoys sports. She has a younger brother at primary. Sadly her mum passed away with cancer three years ago. At the advice of her primary DN did a test and got a scholarship to a local private school and her fees are almost completely covered by a means tested bursary. Nobody in the family has experience of private schools and there are a few things that don’t sit right with me that worry me.

There is a lot of sport. The sport in the school day is fine but at least once a week she plays a match against another school and is often not back at school until 6.30pm on the coach. It takes her an hour to get home on another coach, then homework and she practices an instrument. Every Saturday she also plays another sport against other schools. If it is an away match she is often gone all day. There is no choice about playing these matches. She has been told it’s part of school. She was encouraged to audition for a school play and got a part. The rehearsals are after school and on weekends so she often finishes late rehearsing and now is rehearsing on Sunday afternoons. She leaves home at 7am every day to get a bus that takes an hour. It isn’t an hour’s journey but the bus collects children from all over so it’s a lot of travel time. There is a lot of homework.

My worries are:
My DN does not seem to have any down time. She and her brother used to come to spend time with my kids at the weekend. She misses us and texts that she is sad she is busy all the time. She has cried on the phone to me several times and always says she didn’t know it would be such a long day and she finds it very hard. She asks me if secondary school is always so hard and I don’t know what to say. I know she is getting amazing chances from an academic point of view but it feels off balance.

My brother makes her food and keeps it warm, they hardly eat as a family. She isn’t doing more than the other kids, this is the standard. These are not optional clubs. Maybe I’m being overprotective because she has already lost her mum at a young age, but is this too much pressure and too much time in school? She has huge rings under her eyes and has difficulty sleeping because she feels stressed about school. Today she text me to ask if she has to go to her rehearsals. I don’t want to interfere but I don’t want to see her suffer and say nothing.

Tbh 830 to 3pm (which my kids do in state school) is not enough and definitely doesn't stretch them. I'd rather they had longer days

What a load of old rot. From someone who 'ended up' in A&E.

Our children enjoyed their long bus commute to school; it was a very sociable part of school life. (40 mins each way, passengers aged 5 to 18, girls and boys).
With a very early start, I made sure mine were up and ready in good time
(no late rush) and fuelled by a really good breakfast. They were always ravenous when they arrived back home. At this time of year they left and arrived home pretty much in the dark.

She's had a big upheaval , is new to everything and has only been there a short time. Keep listening and comforting. When the newness/strangeness wears off she may settle. Lots of sport improves sleep, health and resilience.

Ended up working in A&E is so rude. That's the fast fast lane of routine medical practice, where all the new acute treatments are tried out, and for scientific research purposes, where detailed notes need to be recorded accurately. Because a conscientious record could be the key to seeing something important. Outside of a warzone, A&E is the closest thing to the front line and the most likely place for a nurse or surgeon to have to improvise a quick fix to "hold" your relative safe and stable while working out the best clinical treatment.

@Justthisonce12 DS manages a heavy (private school) academic work load plus a heavy sports training schedule. At 13, he’s unusual to still be competing at a high level, across a very broad range of sports - athletics (sprints, middle distance and long lump), cross country, swimming & rugby. Most kids have specialised in one or two by now. He’s a master at managing his time and commitments, but no way will he be going into a boardroom!

He’ll end up either in pro sport - probably not as a sportsman, (as so few ‘make it’) but almost certainly, coaching, refereeing, whatever else sports careers can entail (I’m a banker so not my area of expertise). If not, I can see him in the forces, police, possibly a pilot, or something similarly active. But I think it’s a bit narrow minded to just think of c suite as the natural career path for bright, well rounded kids? Don’t get me wrong, when we started down the private school route, we were thinking medicine, law, accountancy, banking. But I’ve come to realise he’d absolutely detest those sorts of jobs. I’ve no doubt he’ll be successful in whatever he chooses - he just won’t choose an office based role.

So sport is compulsory but she was 'encouraged' to do rehearsals for the school play, and now she has a part obviously she has to go...

Your db needs to speak to the school. Say how tired his dd is, that she's loving the experience but scared of losing her bursary, so what extra-curricular clubs does she HAVE to do? Then he can set her mind at rest.

@edwinbear so that absolutely was not what I said at all that his only route in life is to go down the c suite boardroom office job. To be clear, my point was that in order to be a c suite boardroom type you’re going to need to be able to juggle lots of things within a day and you’re going to need the mental and physical capacity to start early and work hard throughout the evening. If that girl has the capacity to perform at that level, then she should be encouraged. The work life balance shit that’s fed to so many state school children is absolutely unheard of in private schools.
It’s an absolute given that you won’t do very much later on in life because you would’ve delayed gratification earlier on.

But she's not coping - which is perfectly natural as an 11 year old girl who's struggling to adapt in new circumstances- or she wouldn't be in tears with her auntie, who she doesn't get to see anymore.

It sounds like a punishing schedule, and if that makes me into some beatnik hippie type despite having worked successfully in the corporate world for 30 years, so be it.

I'm not saying the DD should leave, but a bit of sympathy or coping strategies for homework on bus, or a prompt to the DF to pick her up on occasion if it's a late finish, are kindnesses that might help, rather than just saying she wants to toughen up to get a good job.

caitlinrose

I dont think OP is indulging her niece in her sadness at all, she’s just listening to her and acting as a mother figure to a poor young girl who has lost her mother. It’s alright to point out some of the good points and encourage, but not to the detriment of the child thinking no one is really listening to her and her struggles. Just saying it’s a great opportunity, oh you’re so lucky etc feels a bit like “Oh you’re struggling, but it’s a great opportunity, so just get on with it!” Her niece is reaching out to her aunt, and rightly so her lovely aunt is listening and not trying to glibly sweep it all under the carpet with “Oh she’ll be ok.” Op is trying to ascertain if her niece is really ok or not.

And I suppose another dimension to this is that OP was the closest thing that DNiece has to a maternal figure, and now she hardly gets to see her.

Totally with you rookiemere.

I feel like a lot of people praising the superior merits of the C-suite haven't spent a lot of time in a boardroom! C-suite aren't magical hardworking resilient unicorns, forged in the playing fields of our minor prep schools. See also Elon Musk, Frederick Alexander Goodwin and of course our own, dear Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. Twats to a man, leading boardrooms of twats recruited in their own twatty image.

She’s not shy but she’s not exactly the same background as the others. There was a two week half term in October and she said she was the only one who did not fly off somewhere. This may be exaggerated but PP have stressed the opportunities to relax in the longer school holidays.

She’s close to her old friends, from primary and locally. She hasn’t had any special counselling. I don’t get the sense she’s excluded, she texts about stress, so much to do and always being tired, is it normal, not about people being unkind or unfriendly.

I think you and your brother need to find out whether the extracurricular sport, music, and the play are compulsory or options. Hopefully DN's mind can be set at rest on this score and she won't keep on putting pressure on herself.

I think your brother needs to seek out the pastoral team to arrange for support for DD, with the context being the loss of her mother, transition /the change of environment, mixing with new people. She has noticed some differences between herself and the others, as evidenced by her comment that everyone else flew off somewhere for half term. I think there may be a certain degree of what I would almost call homesickness here. I do think she will settle down, but she needs to start feeling less of an outsider, and the pastoral team can help.

Several posters have given excellent suggestions:
Dbro needs to eat with his DD.
The family needs to make the effort to go and cheer at matches.
Family needs to pick DD up from matches.

I'd like to add that Dbro needs to be sure DN is eating plenty, including a big breakfast, and maybe taking a vitamin supplement. She is probably going to start her teen growth spurt soon, and in any event she needs fuel for her long day.

OP thanks for posting, my DH is really pushing for my DD to go to a school like this and I have so many doubts!

Anyway, what I have learned from my research and visits so far is that some private schools are like this and most aren’t. Those that are, have a huge number of boarding pupils, and the structure of the whole school’s lessons and activities is based on the assumption that the child needs to be kept busy. The idea that the child might have family who actually want to spend time with her, just isn’t built into the thinking of those ‘top’ schools as their typical customer is a parent who wants to drop their child there and not see them for a couple of months.

They do get amazing results, but they do it by only accepting very bright pupils and then making them work 6-7 day weeks. Marlborough College, for example, boasts about being a 7 day a week school. So of course several years later those children achieve amazing exam grades but it comes at a cost.

For children whose family are far off overseas and who live on site, this kind of schedule does make a lot of sense. For your niece it does not. The sports matches may be particularly hard for her as many of the mums will be there, cheering on their children and taking them home straight from the match, making it a frequent reminder built into her school week that her mum is not there. 😥 She also lives too far away to make a school like this work well.

My gut feeling is that this school is not a good fit for your niece. I’m not saying she should leave - that depends what other options are available to her - but the schools values do not fit her needs very well.

Speak to DB and ask if he’d mind you having a chat with the pastoral team. Even if he does mind, I’d still be tempted to call the school and ask to speak to the pastoral head in confidence, then explain the situation confidentially and ask what can be done to reduce pressure on a bereaved child struggling: can she be allowed one day a week with no school commitments? Keep saying words like “wellbeing” and “mental health” and “supporting”.

Good luck!

Christ, sounds awful. Not what I would want for my child. You're right to be concerned op.

I don't think this should be considered normal. Some people thrive on a busy schedule and others don't. It's OK to be tired sometimes. But it's not OK for anyone, especially a child to be tired all the time with circles under their eyes. And it's definitely not OK to be unhappy all the time to the extent she is crying on the phone to you. I would talk to your brother about what can be done. Maybe reduce activities. And talk to the school. She's lost her mother three years ago. And def should be getting extra care from the school because of this. Also just because she's going to a private school, doesn't mean that she has amazing choices and this is an amazing opportunity. Private schools aren't always academic and don't guarantee success. More to the point, if she's unhappy, it's not going to seem amazing to her. Other people telling her it's amazing isn't going to stop her being unhappy.

At a time when so many adults have realised that long commutes and long days are not necessary (a covid legacy), and work/life balance is something to value, the ‘normality’ of long exhausting days for a pre-teen prevails. This is a bereaved and tired little girl who seems to need a living and sympathetic adult to advocate for a bit of down time. I feel sorry for her and feel that a conversation should be had with the brother as to whether her best interests are being looked after.

I didn't say that she is supposed to sweep these things under the carpet.I wrote that she should encourage her AND help her to find solutions for the things she's upset about.

At the risk of sounding sexist it seems like your DN is missing the mothering role in her life where her mum is alert to whether she’s coping and initiates those conversations. As wonderful and hands on as my DH is, he often doesn’t pick up the subtle indications that all is not well emotionally for our kids. Mind you it seems many MNetters would happily have their 11yo run over by a steamroller daily if it would grant them the ‘opportunity’ of a private school education and toughen them up for the C-suite.

I think you are right to be concerned and I would try to have an informal conversation with your DB about DN seeming a bit overwhelmed and that she might need some support to turn down the optional activities. Also that he needs to reassure her that the bursary doesn’t require her to agree to everything (or if it does perhaps the school needs to be reconsidered.)

You sound like a wonderful aunt and she is lucky to have you.

It sounds fairly normal and lots of kids do sport outside school, she is just doing hers at/with school. The play sounds like it was optional for people who were interested. The students that do the play probably don’t mind the time it takes up as they enjoy it. Depending on how disruptive it will be, maybe she should consider dropping out of the play until she finds her feet more. She might feel more ready for the commitment and have better time management in future years. I’d

This is all perfectly standard for an independent school. What you haven't mentioned is that she will probably finish for Christmas a week earlier than a state school, return later than a state school, with the same at Easter and will have a two month summer break.

I think she may be feeling the pressure somewhat. Secondary school is very different from primary anyway, the fact it's a fee paying school and she has a bursary means the heat is on. Can you do a couple of sleepovers maybe.if you see her away from the stress it would be easier for her to relax and u get the measure of what's really going on .you sound like a lovely aunt

@Remaker I couldn't agree more.

I posted earlier on this thread about my dd and her similar experience to the posters niece.
I am shocked how many people think C Suite is worth pushing for at age 11.
I am a C Suite board member. I am in the 1.9% of people who pay top rate tax in the UK. I am also one of only a handful of women at my level in my industry.
How did I get there? I went to a comp. But I got into Oxford when only 21% of people went to university. I was bullied as a child so I took up athletics to avoid the bullies. My days could be long. However I have a athletes mentality. I have to win/achieve.
My family lost their money in the 1970s so I worked from 13. I am now mid 50s and I am tired. Men can be silver foxes, women must be age defying!
If I had my time again I would be a teacher.
Do not wish a 80 hour week on small children. It cost me dear. Yes I earn big money but people expect their executives to live a certain lifestyle. I am not sure it is worth it. I think there is so much that people can make a living from today (art, tech). An unhappy child will store up problems for later, believe me I know.

Your niece is being offered an amazing chance and it sort of feels a tiny bit like even though you're supportive of your niece in general you're not really supporting her that much in taking this chance. The supportive thing to do here is to not indulge her in her sadness and confirm how terrible everything is but to point out the good things, to cheer her up, to be happy for her and not think about what you're missing out on when she doesn't come over as often anymore, you'll catch up during the long holidays.

Although this sounds harsh I think there's an element of truth in this.

OP you clearly mean very well and your niece is incredibly lucky to have you in her corner, particularly after the relatively recent loss of her mum. You will be a champion at a time when life is pretty difficult.

It's also worth being clear that a transition from state primary to private secondary is a major culture shock. My daughter is going through this at the moment and it does take them a while to adjust to the extra curricular, all the homework, the competition. It can be really tough on pupils who are lacking in confidence and she will need support to deal with the change in pace.

But for most children and at most schools they settle in soon enough after they find their feet and for the vast majority its ultimately worth it. Particularly for girls, who get so few of these opportunities to catch up later in life. I'm aware that many state secondaries are better than many private secondaries, so it's not as simple as saying this is automatically a better school.

But the emphasis on routine, the extra-curricular opportunities available, the expectations around behaviour and organisation that come with private school (and the probably superior academics) are life-changing for many children. Particularly girls. Yes it's going to come as a shock and yes you need to be on the alert for tiredness and emotional overload. But it will almost certainly be worth it in the end in terms of the confidence and focus it gives her and the opportunities it opens.

I also think the emphasis on "downtime" is misplaced. It's become very fashionable at the moment to talk about the importance of downtime but let's be honest: do you really think a couple of extra hours of watching TV a day offset the benefits of a challenging and structured curriculum?

I think you should keep a close eye on this and possibly involve the pastoral team at the school if you are concerned. But I would caution against allowing your niece to pick up negativity from you about this. Unless there are really urgent concerns about it I wouldn't do anything to make her feel that this is somehow "not for her" or that it's damaging. You risk putting her off something which could change the course of her life. Be supportive, but be careful that you don't signal to her that she is destined not to succeed at this.

Year 7 September - Christmas is a big hard adjustment. That’s without going from state primary to private.

be an ear and listen, and watch. She could come to love it by the end of year 7 or she might not. Also get dbro to talk to school make sure she’s getting help for her bereavement the pastoral should be great.