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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

16 year old in hospital, adult mixed ward.

1000 replies

Teenangels · 18/11/2022 13:58

My daughter and I are currently sitting on a chair in the waiting area, to be taken up to a ward, she is 16 only just and been diagnosed with an appendicitis, she has been given morphine, so is sleepy and

I have been told that she will be going up to an adult mixed ward to wait for surgery and that I am not allowed to go up with her.

I am actually furious that my 16 year old will be surrounded by adult men, she is a child how is this allowed to happen.

In my eyes she is still a child, she can't get married (without my permission) but can be treated as a child.

AIBU and over reacting or AINBU to feel she is being totally let down.

OP posts:
Teateaandmoretea · 19/11/2022 10:31

@Teenangels www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/mixed-sex-accommodation/

It may be worth feeding back on the experience as they suggest!

GabriellaMontez · 19/11/2022 10:32

What sort of person trys to excuse and minimise such terrible 'care' of a poorly child.

I'm glad she's coming home OP. And sorry you had to read such awful comments on this forum.

Blossomtoes · 19/11/2022 10:39

I would ask all those saying that I was in the wrong would they like these conditions on a post natal ward? Would this be acceptable

Unfortunately, now partners are allowed to stay 24/7, that’s exactly what postnatal wards are like. They’re no longer safe spaces for women.

Hope she’s allowed home today and makes a swift recovery.

Rhondaa · 19/11/2022 10:44

'Unfortunately, now partners are allowed to stay 24/7'

Is this right? I had no idea. With our dc dad's obviously came at visiting times and stayed a bit after the birth but that was it. Years ago now but I didn't realise things had changed so much. There is absolutely no need to have men on post natal wards 24/7.

ScribblingPixie · 19/11/2022 10:45

Wishing your daughter a fast recovery, OP. I'm glad that worst is over. Please do make a complaint afterwards. Improvements in attitudes are obviously needed.

JCoverdale · 19/11/2022 10:49

Glad you daughter has come through the operation okay.

Ah yes, the drunks in the ward coming and going, the noise and chaos at night and the general feeling of being really UNSAFE in these wards now. The lack of security of who can walk in and out (anyone). The inattentiveness of staff to the actual patients. It's as if the staff feel no responsibility to police what goes on in these wards, or more likely they dare not, from what I have seen visiting people in hospital, and staying all night with them because they are not safe to be left - basic standards of decent behaviour are not enforced. The NHS is unrecognisable in this aspect from only 30 years ago.
I always report when I see anything dangerous or negligent - I put it in writing. The NHS has got in this state because we are not holding the government and local trusts to account.

Howdoyoulikeyourtea · 19/11/2022 10:52

So glad to hear you could stay. Please do complain, it does lead to change. Our large trust changed a policy after I made one complaint which was recognised as valid and needing changing. Your complaint should certainly lead to trust wide policy of trust meant of 16/17 yr olds being looked at.

Wishing your dd a fast recovery, and a good night’s sleep for you both tonight.

Howdoyoulikeyourtea · 19/11/2022 10:54

Howdoyoulikeyourtea · 19/11/2022 10:52

So glad to hear you could stay. Please do complain, it does lead to change. Our large trust changed a policy after I made one complaint which was recognised as valid and needing changing. Your complaint should certainly lead to trust wide policy of trust meant of 16/17 yr olds being looked at.

Wishing your dd a fast recovery, and a good night’s sleep for you both tonight.

*treatment of 16/17yr olds being looked at

Floralnomad · 19/11/2022 10:56

I worked PT nights as a senior staff nurse for over 20 yrs , never had an issue with people staying . I hope your daughter makes an uneventful recovery , the sickness may be due to something in the anaesthetic or pre med in theatre , so it may be worth asking what she had for future reference .

EmpressoftheMundane · 19/11/2022 10:59

I’m glad the situation improved OP. I wish your DD a speedy recovery. 💐

I do hope you log your feedback in writing. The NHS is in crisis. More than just money is needed.

FlirtyMelons · 19/11/2022 11:03

Absolutely parents should be able to stay with under 18s, I am shocked it's not policy everywhere really. I would think it odd my 16 yo DS wouldn't be on an adult ward as he looks and behaves like a man however he is still legally a child so I would say that basic Safeguarding would mean he should not be alone with random adults. I mean he's not even allowed in his sports team changing room with his over 18 team mates even if he was happy with that, let alone in a potentially vulnerable state.

Clovacloud · 19/11/2022 11:04

I would feel the same as you OP, this isn’t a nationwide thing. At 16 in our local hospital she would have been put on a children’s ward. I hope she is feeling much better this morning and that you’re home soon.

HikingforScenery · 19/11/2022 11:07

Thank you for the update, OP. Wishing your daughter a speedy recovery.

HRTQueen · 19/11/2022 11:08

What has the NHS come too ffs the safeguarding of patients is being compromised

im pleased to read you could stay with your dd it’s a very frightening experience to have an emergency operation especially when so young. Hope she is in her own bed very soon.

while I’m glad we have the NHS I certainly don’t feel grateful that we now have such poor service patients (and staff) we all deserve better

Qazwsxefv · 19/11/2022 11:25

Back in the day parents did have to leave kids alone on peads wards and it wasn’t great emotionally but it was probably safe physically as the whole set up was for unaccompanied children - much like a school is.

Now days sometimes parents do have to leave kids on peads wards alone - maybe they have other children at home for example but there is a world of difference between leaving a child on a paediatric ward where the staff are all trained in looking after children of all ages, the doors are locked with robust security protocols and there are generally many more additional staff such as play specialists (who don’t just play with little kids, they are trained to work with teens as well) and even teachers (if your staying in a long time) and leaving a child on an adult ward where none of that stuff happens. My trust doesn't even mandate level three safeguarding for staff that work in adults only.

RosesAndHellebores · 19/11/2022 11:26

It isn't always great on paediatric wards. When dd was 9 she needed surgery having badly broken her leg. I stayed overnight and it's a very good job I did.

The ward sister in the early evening said with a smirk in front of my mother "you won't be letting her stay with nan again then after what happened?" Outrageously unkind.

As night wore onto the early hours, the very young child in the bed opposite jumped on his bed from 11.30 until 1.30 with a very loud TV playing. It kept dd awake.

At 2.30 the noise from the nurses station was unbelievable. It was all gossip about their personal lives. At 3.30 one walked through the ward and shouted at me that I'd sleep better if I converted the chair to a bed and slept in it properly. (I'd have got some sleep were it not for the nurses inconsiderate noise).

Meanwhile a child came up from theatre having had her arm reset as an emergency. Throughout this she slept until about 6.30. Her mother hadn't stayed.

Throughout the night nobody checked on dd and I had been left with an oral syringe of pain relief if she needed it. Clearly not their job.

In the morning the little girl who had come in was crying for her mum. Not one nurse comforted her. Then she was hungry. I went to the nurses station where four nurses were gossiping and asked if she could have some juice/milk and toast and was pointed to the trolley to deal with it.

There was no care whatsoever for any child. My child had her surgery and one check was undertaken. We were specifically told by the anaesthetist she would go down at 7.45am. At 11am that hadn't happened. The nurses couldn't say why and were arsy when I asked them to find out. DD was eventually discharged at 6.30pm and nobody would help us lift her in the car - the porters went home at 6pm. The nurses response "stay until the porters get back tomorrow morning, it's not our job". Fortunately two student nurses helped. My step and neighbours were at the other end.

It was a spectacular lack of care and professionalism.

We stayed at my mother's until dd's outpatient appointment where the nurses were shouting at patients. It was standing room only in orthopaedic outpatients.

The most irritating fact was that the night before the op I asked if dd could be transferred to our local private hospital. BUPA were on hand to meet the bill and had approved it. The ward sister told me it would cause additional work and the surgeons were so good I'd be crazy to think of it as dd was in such good hands.

A decision I regretted. However this was at QEQM albeit in 2009. The NHS was then floating in Blair's funding after 12 years of a Labour government.

Problems in the NHS are cultural and centre on poor standards and poor management. They have far less to do with resources than the argume to bandied about.

I hope the OP complains.

Blossomtoes · 19/11/2022 11:59

We know you detest the NHS @RosesAndHellebores. The mystery to me is that you continue to use when you clearly have the means to avoid it.

StillNotAGirl · 19/11/2022 12:00

Relieved to see your update OP glad they let you stay with her on recovery. I had to stay on a mixed ward as an adult and I could not get out of that hospital quick enough. Majority of the male patients were fine but it only takes one or two to make it a very scary environment for vulnerable women and children and some older men seem to delight in demonstrating how good hospital gowns are for flashing

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 19/11/2022 12:06

I've seen the NAMALT defence has inevitably been trotted out on this thread. '99% of men are not predators', I think was the statement used.

Here's an accurate stat, not just one plucked out of the air, to interest you. 98% of sex offences are committed by males, only 2% by females.

I don't know the exact percentage of the overall female populace who have been sexually assaulted, harassed, or had to fend off unwanted physical or sexual contact from males, but it's a lot. Almost every woman you meet has a story to tell in this respect. And it's constant.

#MeToo does not bear out the comforting illusion that 99% of men are not predators. A larger number of them most be, otherwise the problem would not be so prolific and there would be far fewer females on the receiving end of their unwanted behaviour.

None of these observations go to the silly extreme of claiming all men are like that. But they do suggest that sidesweeping legitimate safety concerns are not advisable, and that those who want to keep the status quo precisely as it is (ie protecting predatory men) might want to examine their motives for doing so.

OP, so glad your DD is okay and that you are with her. Hope you get out of there and back to the comfort and safety of your own home as soon as possible Flowers

momlette · 19/11/2022 12:07

I have also noted that children on paediatric wards who are alone are not well attended by staff. Really sad. The staff really didn’t seem to be “ on their knees “ either and had plenty of time to chat with each other and chit chat with parents which is great but then it counters the argument of being rushed off their feet somewhat. I wasn’t a big fan of sleeping in a camp bed only feet away from another strange adult male with just a curtain separating us or indeed popping out to the parents bathroom which was outside the ward leaving DD in a bed near strange adult males.

WheresMyDodo · 19/11/2022 12:09

Teenangels · 19/11/2022 07:56

Just to update those interested.

After sitting in the car park, for 2 hours and calling recovery as directed but they did not answer, I went up to the surgical wards there are 8 at this hospital.

I found a nurse, who was lovely and showed me where the operating theatre exit was got me a chair and said wait here and you will see your daughter come out. They were horrified that I was not told anything.

Finally my daughter come out and was transferred to a ward, she was constantly throwing up, the sister in charge allowed me to stay without me even asking, on a chair next to her bed, as she said that it would be better as my daughter as she is so young.

The ward was busy, last night a woman in the bay clearly distressed screamed all night for her husband, shouting they are killing her, the nurses were not in the bay all night and a couple of men were wandering around at 1pm who clearly had a drink issues and had left the hospital and managed to get hold of some. My daughter had me with her so was less overwhelmed.

We are hoping to be able to go home today!!

I would ask all those saying that I was in the wrong would they like these conditions on a post natal ward? Would this be acceptable.

All those saying if I did not like the set up I should go private unfortunately we do not have any private A&E hospitals near us.

This could have been dealt with in a better way, by a sister using their own common sense and followed their own policies which clearly state that parent/carers can stay with under 18s on the ward.

I’m glad you got to be with her and good luck for her recovery 💐

RosesAndHellebores · 19/11/2022 12:14

@Blossomtoes as you well know it can't be avoided for things like A&E, emergency surgery, etc.

Mostly I do avoid it, my elderly parents can't always. My rheumatologist is NHS because she is the best probably in the UK and doesn't do private work. She's fab, the services around her are dire. It is so disorganised. For what it's worth, the medication I need for a chronic health condition which my rheumatologist recommends, isn't available on the NHS (NICE guidelines) so I am paying for it through the NHS. £2500 for a two year course. If another of my vertebrae collapses, I may no longer be able to work and the NHS will have a net loss. However the arse of a system provides me with free prescriptions because I'm over 60. I don't need free prescriptions, I do need optimal healthcare and so do my family.

When dd was ill a few years ago CAMHS refused her, my GP refused to recommend a counsellor. I was told to find one on the Internet. When dd had an escalation (and she was much better at this stage having been under the care of a private adolescent psychiatrist for 12 months when the NHS had refused support) she took herself to A&E to check she hadn't damaged herself by taking six paracetamol 36 hours earlier - the escalation had passed. A&E were unaware there were MHLS on site from 8am to 2am every day and they could assess 16 to 18s. A&E as a protocol wanted to admit her overnight with a 1:1 nurse for a CAMHS review the next day. CAMHS had refused to help her when she was harming far more seriously very regularly. The cost of that intervention would have been over a thousand pounds. I don't believe the issues have much to do with funding, rather with management

If I hadn't had funds to support my dd I'm sure she'd have dropped out of 6th form and entered a downward spiral. Instead she went to uni and is now teaching and contributing to society.

What happens to people without funds and choices? The NHS gives not a flying *k in my experience.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 19/11/2022 12:17

workiskillingme · 19/11/2022 10:16

I haven't read the full thread so apologies but I was terrified last year- my 17 year old who was bedbound and vulnerable was in a ward with several men who were able to walk around freely and I did think to myself wtf if she gets sexually assaulted ? Then thought oh you are being dramatic don't be silly but it's a terrifying thought your underage kid being in hospital immobile with nobody to look out for them

Can I just add that the same thing happened to us, unfortunately my child was in a ward for 5 months. They had a single room but unfortunately this was almost worse as my child was unable to get out of bed and couldnt talk either so was very vulnerable amongst men with brain injuries wandering around. Also completely reduced staff at night where they said they would check on her every 15 mins (yeh, right!!)

iRun2eatCake · 19/11/2022 12:22

Teenangels · 19/11/2022 07:56

Just to update those interested.

After sitting in the car park, for 2 hours and calling recovery as directed but they did not answer, I went up to the surgical wards there are 8 at this hospital.

I found a nurse, who was lovely and showed me where the operating theatre exit was got me a chair and said wait here and you will see your daughter come out. They were horrified that I was not told anything.

Finally my daughter come out and was transferred to a ward, she was constantly throwing up, the sister in charge allowed me to stay without me even asking, on a chair next to her bed, as she said that it would be better as my daughter as she is so young.

The ward was busy, last night a woman in the bay clearly distressed screamed all night for her husband, shouting they are killing her, the nurses were not in the bay all night and a couple of men were wandering around at 1pm who clearly had a drink issues and had left the hospital and managed to get hold of some. My daughter had me with her so was less overwhelmed.

We are hoping to be able to go home today!!

I would ask all those saying that I was in the wrong would they like these conditions on a post natal ward? Would this be acceptable.

All those saying if I did not like the set up I should go private unfortunately we do not have any private A&E hospitals near us.

This could have been dealt with in a better way, by a sister using their own common sense and followed their own policies which clearly state that parent/carers can stay with under 18s on the ward.

I don't think you have been unreasonable at all.

My hospital would have encouraged you to be there as much as you would want to be.

Americano75 · 19/11/2022 12:23

@Teenangels I'm so glad your daughter came through her op OK and I hope she recovers well. You must be shattered too, fingers crossed you're both home as soon as possible.

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