To think someone must be able to do something - part two

[PurpleLampShades]

I’m starting a new thread as advised by some posters and because the first thread was a great source of support for me (link to first thread here).

Long story short - DS (16) is in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started before he turned 16 at the end of July, though they both denied that to police and SS. I tried everything I could think of to stop it but he walked out of the house to stay with her at the end of September and I’m struggling to maintain contact with him. I’ve barely been able to see or speak to him since he left. She has shown very controlling behaviour and he is slowly becoming isolated from me, his friends and hobbies etc. Social services are currently involved, doing an assessment, but have already said it’s very difficult to do much without him consenting to input/intervention so I think they’re trying to prepare me for a poor outcome of the assessment. I am trying to focus on keeping my relationship with him going and ensuring he knows I’m here whenever he needs me and can come home whenever he needs no questions asked.

It really wouldn't strawberry, I'm not sure why you think that? and in what way could a 16 year old girl be more protected than a 16 year old boy?
It's less common this way around yes. There are plenty of 16 year old girls in ds's position, and there is no magic girl solution for it that doesn't apply to boys. Age is the vulnerability here

I haven’t managed to get in contact with the party host but I spoke briefly to the sister of DS’s friend who knows the party host. She doesn’t know gf but said she’d ask her friend (the party host) about her. I’ll see how the meeting goes and then decide how best to approach things. Maybe the kill her with kindness idea would work, I don’t know.

I think all you can say to him is that even when children move out of the family home it is normal if they live nearby to keep in touch and have a coffee or a meal once a week. Stress that you would like to establish a routine of being able to see him on a regular basis, maybe a fixed time each week. As when you had coffee last time the gf kept texting and ringing maybe try to stipulate how long -an hour and a half maybe-and offer to drive him home so that she doesn't need to be waiting. Maybe try to normalise the situation for his point of view-this is what everyone does if they move out. It's normal to see parent on a regular basis, because you love them. As another poster said maybe this could be when you give him the money in cash, but I'm not sure that that won't change it to a coerced meeting rather than one done out of love. It would be better if he could recognise that moving out doesn't mean losing contact.

@RobinStrike that’s great advice. Moving out should not mean cutting people out of your life, so perhaps the focus (for now) should be on just modelling and maintaining the sort of evolving parent-child relationship that occurs when children do grow up. Hopefully that will help him to see that his girlfriend is being unreasonable and controlling…

Next step could simply be accepting( to them) if nothing really can be done then what's going to keep you by him.and that will be maybe you gritting your teeth,going to him im fully ok with you doung what yoh need to do,you obvuously loveceachother cery much.amf want to bevyogethet.but when people move out they don't cut others off son.so let's find a new way to be part of each others lives.because I don't ever want to lose us.hes got to think on that and realise moving in with a do doesn't mean cutting out all others.

It appears you’re fighting over him??? She what’s control for future money

Hi @PurpleLampShades, I'm sorry you've had such an upsetting week and your son isn't engaging with the SW. How are you feeling today? Keep going, you are doing amazingly well 💐

Sorry haven’t read all of the previous thread but what is the actual issue here?

Do you think his girlfriend is abusive or something??

Don't be so bloody lazy. RTFT.

I think you need to step back.
Ignore attendance texts.
Maybe message and say that you love him and you would like him to move home and you will have a place for him whenever he wants.
He is doing his own thing and trying to control or change this is only going to push him away.
Just my thoughts

I agree with middleeasternpromise, I think if he wants you to give him more money (child benefit) it is reasonable to point out that you would like a relationship with him, as in he comes over to yours for a meal once a week, by himself, 3 hours minimum and not checking phone every 2 minutes.

I also don't think you should up his trust fund money nor give him all the child benefit. Let him know that you will still buy him textbooks, college supplies etc and clothing, and that THIS is what the child benefit is at least partially for.

I know you understandably don't want him to drop out of college but other people are right - if he does and he ends up going to work he'll be away from her and with other people 40 hours a week. He CAN always go back to college in the future if/when things change.

@LyleLanley It's not fair for you to require additional emotional labour from the OP because you can't be bothered to read the OP's posts here and in the previous thread. Please either read them all if you want to know, or show yourself out.

OP has explained what the issue is multiple times. There’s a really handy button MN on OPs post a which says “see all”, on the OP click on the link to the first thread and read all of OPs posts.

Thats a quicker and much nicer way of finding out what the issue is, than expecting OP to explain it all to you.

Oh op I've read the whole previous thread and I'm so sorry. I have experienced a similar situation but the older person was my mother. When I was 7 she met a 16yr old at my brother's girlfriends birthday party. She moved him in the next day she was 34. She sat my sister (who was 12) and myself down and said don't ruin this for me. Even as a child I knew it was wrong, I would lie when asked who he was and say my brother. I'm now 37 and they are still together. They never had children together but she has bullied and controlled him the whole time. I have never got on with him but I recognise the situation for what it is. I don't have much to do with them, my children don't visit and they don't visit us. They see my mother as a pervert and very odd.

I hope to goodness he will return soon.

I've been reading along for a while. It's taken a while for me to form an opinion.
May not be popular...
I'd continue trying to be involved, quietly saying you're worried.
Say you'll give him his child benefit in cash each week, he can come round and collect it.
But say his dad would be very worried about him and wouldn't want his money to be used like this. So I wouldn't give him any more. He's free to come home and have all the money for himself and his relationship.
I'd also offer him grief counselling (private, paid for by dads money) as I really think he needs it.

Hi op. I followed the last thread. Find it ridiculous that the social worker wants to refer him to services to teach him about healthy relationships and simultaneously decided he's not at risk? This is a huge contradiction and probably reflects budget cuts and services being over stretched.

I think offering him his child benefit as long as he continues to attend college is reasonable and in his best interests long term.

I agree with previous advice about pointing out that it's normal to move out and still keep in contact with your mother, and the fact that he hasn't seen you on his own and reduced contact is worrying/concerning. I know that you don't want to say anything to rock the boat but it's a good point and not related to thier age gap. I would even say something along the lines of "this has been really hard on me and I've really missed you and worried about you."

At the moment you are just taking whatever little bits of contact you can get from him and not wanting to say anything damaging, which actually puts him in quite a powerful position. He knows he can call and you'll come running. He knows he can come home anytime. You have consistently messaged him and checked up on him, he knows you're there. You can afford to be honest with him about how worried you are in my opinion.

Have that wine that you thought about and take care of yourself.x

Just read through the last few posts since my last one. Those of you saying I need to model what’s normal, as in, it’s normal to maintain contact with loved ones when you move out especially if you had a previously good relationship. You’re all right and I will start trying to do that, if I get to see or speak to him properly.

I’ve had a text from him this morning telling me not to be nasty, tell lies or make trouble in the meeting tomorrow. I don’t know if those are his words or hers. First contact from him since meeting for coffee over a week ago. I don’t expect either of them to be there tomorrow. DS has already said he’s not going. I haven’t replied because what can you say to that? It’s all getting twisted in his head that the gf is the victim here and I’m the one causing all the problems. I really don’t want this to become a me vs her thing because that solves nothing and just puts him in the middle with all that stress and pressure. That’s not what I want at all. I just want him to be happy, healthy and loved, and I don’t think this situation is really giving him that.

DS did have a few grief counselling sessions but didn’t really engage with them and eventually said he didn’t want to go anymore. I could raise it again perhaps. He didn’t see his dad much at all, occasionally spoke on the phone, but ex did support financially and always sent for DS’s birthday/Xmas.

I'm so sorry you're still going through this all OP. I hope the meeting tomorrow has a positive outcome xx

Tbh if the roles were reversed I think it would be more acceptable as girls mature quicker than boys and a “mature” 16 year old girl and an less mature 27 year old guy could be more on the same page. I know several with larger age gaps. 18 year old girls who married their 30 year old bf’s who they had met at 16/17 and had very successful marriages

I think the only way through this is to be very very reasonable. Accept their relationship and drip into conversation things like him going into to college and keeping up with studies and qualifications etc as then he can get a better paying career which will help them both in the long term to get a mortgage and when they have children.

Play nice and invite them round to Sunday Lunch. Get to know her as someone said upthread

This is either the person he is going to be spending his whole life or a good part of his life with or a teenage rebellion.
Either way being reasonable, approving of his choices will give him the opportunity to make his own decisions or having your mums positive approval of your risky choice of gf will prove a complete passion killer.

I really think you need to switch things now op.hard as it is.this other way isn't working.he feels how your feeling towards her and right now that just hurts.and hurt young boys just turn hurtful.
I think you need to message him.let him no you've thought long and hard and are sorry,you completely agree and want to work on all your relationships and be really happy he's found so done he loves.thats all a mum wants 🙄😫
So could you start again.go from here.lets meet up.lets have lunch.lets get to no eacother.let me welcome her properly.
This at least gets you in.gets her unable to play the victim.gets him knowing mum's on his side.

It's Christmas too.loads of opportunity.
A market.
Show.
Take her present shopping.
What would she like.
A woman's guidance so you and him could go shopping for her.
Where does he feel comfortable having chri stmas.wpuld they like to come to yours.
Tree shopping.
Buying devs for their place.
Come for mince pie session.
Loads.
Start lying.get back in there.play the long game.but at least you have him.

Hi Purple, glad you've started another thread. It's really hard isn't it when they're convinced you're just out to cause trouble.

I actually think some of the words you've used in your post might make a good basis for a reply? The bit about the last thing you want is to cause him stress and pressure, just want him to be happy , healthy and loved - that comes across straight from the heart...and might be enough in itself for now, see what comes up in the meeting tomorrow.

I still think trying to connect non-judgementally with him until you feel he is ready to open up around his feelings in all of this, will be key in helping to turn things around. The end goal really is to gain enough "safe" connection to be able to
communicate to him (and him be open to hearing) that you understand his situation and still care about him (this is what I'd hoped a yp professional would be able to work towards with him, easier to achieve from the outside sometimes because not emotionally involved, but not impossible)...that it must have been difficult to feel like he had to choose between his relationship with his gf, and his relationship with you. Once he can begin to look at his feelings about it a bit deeper, the push and pull between you both will become evident to him and you'll have something more to work with. But he will only be able to achieve that when he feels secure enough in your connection, which still sounds delicate.

So I agree with others, continue just killing with love and understanding, to nurture and progress the connection, keep going back to basics whenever it feels its getting off course. Tell him things like you hear that he's worried, you're sorry if taking the steps you have has made him feel you're trying to cause trouble, you want to reassure him you're really not, that he's nothing to be worried about if the relationship is positive and good, it'll all come out in the wash etc. You hope he'll understand and forgive your concerns one day. You were sorry you didn't get much time to talk before, don't want to upset him at all, just want him to have healthy relationships both with gf and with you and would love to see him again properly.... any or all of these types of things might be helpful I hope, I'm sure others will have different ideas too. Again go with what feels most natural to you x

Also with you on not being 100% certain those were his words...

Sorry if you’ve already said this, but have you met this woman?

Thinking of you today. Let's hope that some progress gets made.

I think it's very telling that he wanted you to be silent on it all. Perhaps the idea that this isn't quite so "normal" after all is filtering through a little ...

Thinking of you today, I hope you have some plan in place now.