To think someone must be able to do something - part two

[PurpleLampShades]

I’m starting a new thread as advised by some posters and because the first thread was a great source of support for me (link to first thread here).

Long story short - DS (16) is in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started before he turned 16 at the end of July, though they both denied that to police and SS. I tried everything I could think of to stop it but he walked out of the house to stay with her at the end of September and I’m struggling to maintain contact with him. I’ve barely been able to see or speak to him since he left. She has shown very controlling behaviour and he is slowly becoming isolated from me, his friends and hobbies etc. Social services are currently involved, doing an assessment, but have already said it’s very difficult to do much without him consenting to input/intervention so I think they’re trying to prepare me for a poor outcome of the assessment. I am trying to focus on keeping my relationship with him going and ensuring he knows I’m here whenever he needs me and can come home whenever he needs no questions asked.

[PurpleLampShades]

Well, the meeting didn’t really go the way I was hoping and I feel a bit like we’re back at square one. Outcomes were he is considered low risk on the CSE risk assessment, doesn’t meet section 47 threshold, so isn’t considered at risk of significant harm, but there are some concerns about the impact the relationship is having on DS, so they want to try some early intervention strategies. He refused to attend but sw had spoken to him about it prior and he basically told her the concerns are stupid. The one good thing to come out of it is that he’s agreed to come for dinner once a week (starting next Friday) in order to maintain a relationship with me as long as I don’t talk about her or their relationship or anything to do with it/her. Bit of blackmail thrown in but I’ll go with it for now. He’s refused any counselling or support groups/workshops so quite what the early intervention is going to be I don’t know. Sw seems hopeful she can persuade him to try something though. They went through a list of referral options that they’re going to talk to him about again.

I asked how much the assessment looked into things prior to him turning 16 and they said the only evidence that any grooming took place was me saying I saw them kissing and that I heard him calling her his gf. Their response was that’s not enough evidence and so there’s nothing that can be done about that element and it won’t do anything to help the situation now. I think they haven’t really looked into this enough tbh but I suppose I get their point that it won’t help the situation right now unless there’s something they can arrest and charge her with.

I asked how much they looked into her as a risk and they said their concerns about the relationship are related to HIS decisions to disengage from me, friends and social activities in favour of spending time with her. Apparently, she’s been encouraging him to maintain social and family connections, but it’s him that’s decided not to. Maybe that’s because she makes his life a misery if he dares to ever do anything that doesn’t involve her! I also call bullshit that she’s been encouraging him to see me. When I pressed the issue, they then said there might be some minor controlling behaviour from her but it’s DS that needs to request support for dealing with that if he feels he needs it. They’d like him to engage in the support they’re going to offer but if he doesn’t there’s nothing they can really do.

So essentially, the real outcome of these weeks of assessment is that I’ve just got to accept that my DS has been groomed into a controlling and coercive relationship and sit back and watch until (if) he is able to recognise it for himself and request help and support. I’m really deflated at this outcome and it’s just crazy they can sit there and say they’ve got these concerns but that it’s DS’s (the child’s!) responsibility to do something about it. It just doesn’t make sense to me! I feel like hands are being washed of us and I get that they’re swamped and there’s probably lots of children younger than him who are at significant risk of harm that they need to help but I’m just feeling pissed off with it right now. I feel like I’m being left to deal with it on my own. So, yes, I suppose I’ll just have to try the kill with kindness option because I don’t have much else.

@7eleven I have met her properly once at a lunch the three of us went to.

[Badger1970]

It's really positive that he's agreed to meet you once a week. That way you'll still have a connection with him and it will make coming home very normal for him. It's equally shit that there's nothing else that can be done, but I think you have to play the long game here. Don't be afraid to have boundaries - ie not letting him having money/emotionally blackmailing you with his demands. There are always times when we have to hold firm with our kids no matter how old they are. I think it's OK to let him know that just because you don't approve of his choices, it doesn't mean that you don't love him. Hold firm - you've done everything right here even if it doesn't feel like it tonight

[7eleven]

Am I being naive in thinking that it’s good in a way that the professionals don’t think he’s at great risk? Obviously the relationship is unhealthy, but hopefully no long term harm will come of it.

It’s fantastic he’s agreed to come home once a week. You’re being so brave and I think your steadfastness will win out in the end.

[longleggitybeastie]

I expect the "encouragement" was her agreeing to meet with you for lunch

What a nightmare waiting game it all is. I do agree with 7eleven though, it's good they've not identified high risk, but I'm immediately wondering how much looking in to the pre-16 side of things. Surely there is evidence out there other than just your say so?

Tagging @stillvicarinatutu incase she's not found the new thread yet, it would be good to get her take on this. Stick at it Purple, it is really good he's agreed to see you regularly on his own, even if you can't (yet) discuss what you so badly need to. All in good time, there's every chance he'll crack eventually

[Jaxinthebox]

Maybe you could put some stipulations on the Friday dinner - that phones are switched OFF for the whole time he is there and you get to have a peaceful chat/meal and catch up with no interruptions. Given that the gf has called / text continually in the past.

Could that be an option @PurpleLampShades ? Im so sorry this is not the outcome expected, or wanted, but keep on going. Its not ideal, but dinner once a week is a good start. Lets hope it works out. You could also broach Christmas with him, see what plans are...

[longleggitybeastie]

That is a really good point about trying to ensure the time is uninterrupted, and modelling that as a clear and healthy boundary. However, I think your immediate response to the outcome of the assessment and the first contact following it, might need treating with kid gloves. In a way, it would help build a picture just to see how it goes - if it is continually bombarded and interrupted again (more than just a quick check in with her that it is going okay, which might be viewed as reasonable) it is another opportunity for the controlling elements to be evidenced and also to see his reaction to this, for you to then to gently raise it as a stipulation for the next one?

You could raise the subject of Christmas, it seems a perfectly natural thing for you to want to talk about, but again, it might be an idea to stick to safe, non-contentious topics for the first one at least, and hopefully just make some happy and secure memories for him to go away with, to reinforce your image as a safe place and his sense of wanting to see you again. There's a bit of time yet for Christmas plans to unfold. Try not to race ahead, they might see this as an attempt to discuss their relationship/plans and accuse you of putting pressure on etc...easier said than done though, I am sure. Might need to stock up with a bucket of gin for afterwards!! But a bit more patience (through gritted teeth) might be your best bet to start with. Unbelievably hard though, I appreciate that.

[kateandme]

Great he's going to come to you.
I'm sorry for you.but also it does sound in depth what they've done( more than most ss half ass work currently going on) so I'd be slightly treasured there.
Maybe on one of the nights you could ask if he wanted to invite a few of his mates.for a pizza.that way he's seeing normal,his friends,he's realising how different.their lives are,keeping connected etc.
Also id very much ask one time if she ever wanted to join you'd like to get to know her.you realise this is the woman he loves.its only right you two try to get to no eacother.matbe say you were just so blindsighted before.but now,you just want your family back on good terms.

I can't see it lasting.
For her things will start ticking.hes too young and will go through stuff over the next few years that she will be well past in a partner.

Make sure he knows your still his mum.and it's kind of your job to a boy the pants off him.so not to take every slight as a critical role of his current life! No,your just his mum who will tell him off if you think he's a knob😁

[1dontunderstand]

I agree that the time you get to spend with him should be with his phone off, maybe get the sw to speak to him about this!

[Angrymum22]

I have read through both your threads and totally understand your concerns. I have a DS just turned 18 who has had an on off relationship with a girl his own age who was incredibly controlling.
However as he has matured he has seen how toxic it was when she effectively stopped him from seeing his mates but also didn’t involve him in her own social life.
Fortunately, he didn’t leave home and although having a rough time when he did kick back he is a far more rounded and sensible person now.
They are still close friends but he has learnt to set boundaries and how to say no.
At 16 there is only one thing on their mind and it really does get them into trouble. Unfortunately your DS has ended up in a relationship where he just doesn’t have the life experience to work out that things are not right. First love is a learning curve and very often ends up in tears. I learned that I just had to be there for when things were going to go wrong. DS was isolated at a time when he needed the support of his friends. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and DS’s gf was not sympathetic and was even more demanding of his time. The penny dropped for DS and he finished with her, only for her to beg him not to. A week later she very publicly finished with him. She caused him a lot of distress but he moved on and is now back with his friends.
He still cares about her and they still see each other but he is more of a support for her. He doesn’t allow her to control him. He still loves her but has worked out that not all relationships are healthy.
Op, your son is still a child, he will work it out. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Keep the door open for him. There will come a time he needs you. I found that when I stopped trying to tell my DS the obvious flaws in his relationship he worked it out for himself. I didn’t tell him ‘I told you so’ I just loved him and listened to him.

[1dontunderstand]

@PurpleLampShades did you have dinner with your son last night?

[winteriscoming2022]

Just a thought OP but I've got a feeling that if a 16 year old can be seen to be 'estranged' from parents he may be able to claim benefits, UC I think ( I know it used to be the case for Income support anyway)
Someone more knowledgeable re benefits hopefully will add to this
Of course you may well not want to pass this information on to your DS!
I really feel for you

[Minimalme]

I've only just seen your thread op. You are really doing everything you can and have handled this nightmare so, so well.

I would say that this woman isn't going to allow you to form a relationship with her. She is doing what she can to isolate your son and that includes you. I think the "kill her with kindness" won't work because she will likely identify it as a threat.

The most important thing in all this is that she doesn't trap him into conceiving a baby with her. Could you talk to SS to ask them to try and enforce this message? Ask him if he is using contraception and try and point out that his this woman decides she wants a baby, how will he react?

Does he want to be a Dad at 16?

I could honestly cry for you op. Try to look after yourself.

[LakieLady]

@winteriscoming2022

Just a thought OP but I've got a feeling that if a 16 year old can be seen to be 'estranged' from parents he may be able to claim benefits, UC I think ( I know it used to be the case for Income support anyway)
Someone more knowledgeable re benefits hopefully will add to this
Of course you may well not want to pass this information on to your DS!
I really feel for you

Because OP's DS is living with a partner, I think they would probably be treated as a couple for benefit purposes.

I'm far from sure though, in 15 years of welfare rights work, I've never encountered a couple where one was under 18. I'll look it up later.

[LakieLady]

The outcome of the social services investigation is disappointing, but not surprising imo @PurpleLampShades .

This is an awful thing for you to be going through. It must be so hard to see your child making unwise choices at any age, but when they're still really so young, it must be doubly so.

I think feigning a degree of acceptance is the way to go now, I'm convinced that the more you express concern or opposition, the more committed to his relationship with her he will become. Agreeing to help him with cash, so that you actually get to see him. is a great idea imo and I would certainly not be letting him have any significant money from the trust at this stage. Just remind him it's for his future, his education etc.

I'd make sure he knows he can come back if ever he feels it's not working out for him, and letting him know that there'll be no adverse consequences or judgement from you. A way out is bound to be something he needs sooner or later imo.

[PurpleLampShades]

No, he didn’t come over yesterday. He text me to say that he was still sorting it out with gf and that he’d be over next week. Not sure what he has to sort with her but I just said ok and looking forward to seeing him.

[kateandme]

@PurpleLampShades

No, he didn’t come over yesterday. He text me to say that he was still sorting it out with gf and that he’d be over next week. Not sure what he has to sort with her but I just said ok and looking forward to seeing him.

I no upntil now it been softly.but might be time to get mother on him. This is an agreed visit. He needs to stick to it.there is nothing to sort.the services all think he's know coming to you for this he has to stcik to his end of the agreements.hes messing you around now and that's unfair.

[kateandme]

What are you doing this week op?

[Badger1970]

That was unfair of him, OP, and weird that he needs to sort it with the GF.

You must be really disappointed.

[PurpleLampShades]

I’m not doing anything this week really. Working and trying not to think about things too much I suppose. I am really disappointed and deflated, yes. I think she’s probably giving him a hard time for agreeing to see me.

[Thedogseyesareintense]

But if she is giving him a hard time OP then it all adds to him slowly building a picture of HER unreasonableness rather than yours. Try not to be in a tug of war with her. Just maintain your calm desire to see him because you love him and miss him and not because you want him away from her. How can the Gf possibly be against that when it’s normal and benign ? When she is, it just makes her look like she’s being difficult and DS may start to see that too.

when you do see him personally I’d stay away from suggesting you want to hang out with her and get to know her overly as he will see straight through it but more just that your initial panic was based on the age gap as it wasn’t something you had encountered before but now you can see it’s not a flash in the pan you just want him to be happy and if this and who is what makes his happy then so be it. Focus on your acceptance being based not on her per se but on his happiness. That’s an appropriate reaction for a mum and keeps him central and her out of it.

That also gives him space to work out he isn’t happy and come home. He won’t want to lose face or let you feel you were right- he’s 16 and their sense of pride about their own decisions being the right ones is enormous even in the face of all the evidence they are wrong.

so I’d be neutral, focusing on wanting him to be happy and be allowed to be in his life because you love him, however that life looks. That you won’t fight against her or him or be cross with her just grateful you can still hang out with him and know he’s thriving. Don’t reiterate he can come home when it breaks down as again it makes it sound as though you know best and are waiting for what you see as inevitable and paints him as foolish. Suggest you trust him to do what makes him happy and that’s all you want to see.

underneath all this it sounds really clear he isn’t having a great time with her. I cannot imagine for one minute it will last long term but he will be able to leave much sooner if he doesn’t have to swallow too much pride to do so.

Hang in there OP I honestly think you are doing great but I know it must be agony.

[cantba]

I'm horrified by this OP. If your son was a girl there is no way this would not be treated so much more seriously.

Is she odd OP? What interest could a 27 year old possibly have in a child. Its very weird.

[PurpleLampShades]

I don’t think he can recognise it as her being unreasonable. It’s more that she is making him feel he’s doing something wrong and he’s worried about upsetting her. I can imagine he’s trying to figure out a way to keep her happy and still be able to come over on a Friday. I suspect he’ll end up sacrificing something else like seeing his friends at college or going to a party or something.

I’ve only met her properly once and she came across as quite normal in the sense there was nothing outwardly odd about her generally. She was perfectly polite to the waiting staff and could hold a conversation. She’s actually quite attractive, which made me wonder why she can’t get someone her own age. Maybe she’s had previous relationships and treated them in a similar way and they haven’t put up with it so she’s gone for someone much younger and easier to manipulate and control.

[longleggitybeastie]

I like @Thedogseyesareintense suggestions about focusing on his happiness, whatever that is for him at the moment, even if it's different to what you know deep down is good for him. Have you asked him what would he like to do when he does come? The suggestion upthread to maybe see if he'd like to have some friends over is also a good one, but personally I'd totally grab with both hands any chance to see him on his own initially and just enjoy each others company.

I really hope Friday this week will bring a bit of much needed healing for you both.

[RobinStrike]

I really hope things go well this Friday and you can both just relax and enjoy each other's company, although I know you will both be stressed by it. Maybe on another Friday, if it does become a regular thing, one or two of his friends could come for the last hour, so you are giving him space and time to keep in touch with them. The contrast with you wanting what makes him happy and the gf keeping him away from everyone would have to be obvious to him. Also, his friends would probably be leaving your house to go out together partying and he will realise that staying with the gf is depriving him of the fun he used to have. It would become obvious without being spoke about.

[kateandme]

Maybe text midweek.anything I need to get in for Friday? Name his favourite food.takeaway.
Don't spend your week regretting or prepping anything.just carry on.butvdont be taken for a ride op.
Feels like for a little while you've kept half of yourself in the this might go back to normal soon camp.but if say at least for now this isn't going to happen.
So get your focus back on you.you need to be able to live alongside this.
Your on better ground than some when their child isn't home.you no where he is.you no he is generally safe right now.and you can hopefully be seeing him.
You can also be there if he needs it.focus on the knowledge you can still at least for now no he's is ok.
Try to pick yourself up.and get your own joys back.dont be buried by this.