"People have their own lives"

[alfreddo82]

We lived abroad for many years but moved back to the U.K. recently so our children could spend time with grandparents and extended family. DH in particular was really concerned that our DC were missing out from not having those family connections.

Since moving back we have found family on both sides to be a massive disappointment and one of the phrases I constantly hear when speaking to people about the situation is “yes but people have their own lives”

I have lots of friends who’s parents/aunts/cousins etc seem very interested in spending time with them and their children and this is just integrated into “their own lives”

I am well aware that everyone has different priorities in life, however AIBU to think that really that phrase just means “people can’t be fucked” and would rather just continue on as they always have without making any effort for anyone else?

Since moving back we have found family on both sides to be a massive disappointment and one of the phrases I constantly hear when speaking to people about the situation is “yes but people have their own lives

Indeed they do. As did you. You lived abroad for many years - living your own lives.

IME this happens when you emigrate. Life in your original country goes on. If you return, you have to accept this and find ways to reintegrate. You can’t expect everyone to drop everything just because you’ve re-emigrated.

I hear you OP I would have expected them to be more involved too! They can have their own lives and also make time, you have also made a sacrifice to spend more time with them. Family isn't just a social activity to be fitted into the calendar! If your families don't get it sadly the only option is to adjust your expectations to help you cope - you will know you did everything you could and they will be missing out!

Those that say well everyone moved on, and what do you expect etc

We are talking about a parent- child relationship here. Not some random relative.

The bond between parent and child, dare I say it mother and child by its very definition should be deep and loving, and in many cases unconditional. Is it really too much to expect for your own mother to be happy you are back (with baby grandchildren) and wish to spend some time with you?

Is it really too much to expect for your own mother to be happy you are back (with baby grandchildren) and wish to spend some time with you?

My sil emigrated a long way away. Mil was devastated, she's very hurt that her beloved daughter has happily run off to the other side of the world. Many people wouldn't do it, me included, because family mean too much to them. I do think it damages a bond when someone goes.

A mother and child relationship should not be damaged by an adventurous child. I fundamentally disagree with the insistence that this all important bond is so fragile that it can be so easily damaged by something so bienign.

My dd is going to Australia to study in 13 months time, I am thrilled for her. I plan to visit and hear all about her wonderful opportunities. It is beyond me how I can possibly love her less, think less of her and lose interest in her simply because she will be living somewhere else.

It seems to me that lots of people really do have very conditional relationships.

What a shame for them, and for their children.

You’re right Venetia, there is a lot of weird bitterness towards people who emigrate. Imagine stunting your own life and ambitions because “faaaaaamily”. What a sad and narrow minded approach to life. Surely any loving and supportive family would be happy for each other fulfilling dreams and having adventures. Parents who emotionally blackmail their adult children by being “devastated” if they move away are toxic imo. If moving abroad can ruin a relationship it can’t have been that strong in the first place! If the relationship is there, it should be able to survive distance. Moving away or abroad doesn’t mean you don’t value or love your family ffs! It just seems like OP’s family wasn’t very close in the first place. Or as I said in my previous post, maybe as she’s the only one to have kids, her siblings just aren’t kid people. I wouldn’t choose to hang out with children even if they did belong to family members or close friends.

I would encourage my children to emigrate if they want to. But your relationship is different if you can rarely see each other.

I don't think many would begrudge their children from experiencing all the world has to offer. And equally, you shouldn't begrude this of your parents either, if they want to travel during retirement.

And posters are right, family love etc. doesn't need to be defined by distance. But also it doesn't need to be defined by X time spent together per month. But everyone has different expectations of relationships.

The point here is that OP didn't originally define the closeness of her family relationships by time spent together per month, as she emigrated. But now she does.

If you do move back to where you were before, please be aware that it might not be the same either because you've been away from that life for quite a while too and the people there may have moved on or not be able to offer the same level of friendship as before you left.

I echo this.

Once or twice a month seems quite reasonable to me tbh

Agreed. It is very very weird and toxic.

Adult children being forced to stay in the area because their parents are literally silently or not so silently blackmailing them with being cut off for their independence. So many posts too, seem to have this very mindset, and support the op's parents position wholeheartedly. They are seemingly confused at the prospect that as a parent we should love and support our children unconditionally, and that includes decisions that are challenging/ difficult/painful for us sometimes.

Tethering up ones children with the idea that when/if you dare to leave then is you are out of the family nest, probably indefinitely, and we will all 'move on' and fill the 'you' sized w=hole in our lives in no time at all living no space for your return. It is massively messed up!! No wonder so many are stunted and don't grow into fully functioning adults if children are raised to believe this utter rot.

You can live anywhere, and you can try anything kids - and your family will still be here with open arms and hearts if and when you return. Basic parenting.

AIBU to think that really that phrase just means “people can’t be fucked” and would rather just continue on as they always have without making any effort for anyone else?

Yes I think that sometimes that phrase does mean that. I have also noticed that over a couple of decades quite a lot of people have, as the means to make and change plans last minute via mobile phones has increased, become very flaky at making actual arrangements and routines.

It depends a bit on what you mean by not enough though? And the person who said that they adjusted to you not being there all the time and now you expect them to adjust back when they have filled their lives with other things, yes that is probably the case. Were there any discussions or commitments about you moving back (pre-move) that they are now reneging on, or did you just decide to move anyway without any such thing?

I've also seen in a family quite close to me where that physical proximity almost makes them less likely to actually make plans, almost as though if you are always there the option is always there. Odd, but there it is.

We moved away 7 years ago, from what I believed to be close family relationships and secure friendship groups. In that 7 years, my parents are the only people who have ever come to visit us, so much so that when we settled somewhere they've actually followed us and now live nearby so they can have a relatoinship with my children and us.

Everyone else, MIL, siblings, aunts, uncles, adult nieces and nephews and friends have all fallen by the wayside, and after the first year don't even send birthday or Christmas cards for them now. My children have zero relationship with the majority of their family, but we've come to accept it and like them, live our own life. It took me a while to come to terms with it, but it sounds like you will be much happier with the friendship groups you had built wherever you moved to, and your children aren't old enough for this move to have much of an impact.

I wish you well in your move back, and am sorry you've had to do this to find out that your family wasn't what you had hoped.

Tethering up ones children with the idea that when/if you dare to leave then is you are out of the family nest, probably indefinitely, and we will all 'move on' and fill the 'you' sized hole in our lives in no time at all living no space for your return. It is massively messed up!!

This is well put. I don't think seeing less of your family because you've emigrated is in any way the same as seeing less of them once you return because they've 'moved on'. If OP had decided not to emigrate in order to stay close to her family it presumably would have involved a lot of sacrifice on her part, giving up opportunities for career development, adventure and so on, and once she's over there it's difficult to come back and visit. It's not remotely comparable to not wanting to spend more time with your child who's just moved back nearby because it involves making some minor adjustments to your new social life to accommodate that, which is what some posters seem to be implying.

That said, OP hasn't elaborated on why her family aren't visiting more - if they have caring responsibilities or demanding careers for example and are already sparing as much time as they can then of course she's being unreasonable. If they're too busy because while she was gone they made new friends and joined a pilates class then I can understand why she'd be hurt by that.

Tethering up ones children with the idea that when/if you dare to leave then is you are out of the family nest, probably indefinitely, and we will all 'move on' and fill the 'you' sized w=hole in our lives in no time at all living no space for your return. It is massively messed up!!

Has anyone said that this happens is that it's reasonable? I don't think anyone in the 'left behind' family actually thinks that way when a family member emigrates.
What people ARE saying is that the relatives at home quite naturally and normally build their lives around what and who is around them. The alternative is that they mope and dwell on the advance of the family member.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they move in with their lives in a healthy way.

I get that it must be very disappointing for OP. The only thing I take issue with is her resentment that "they have their own lives" while not acknowledging that in leaving, they didn't particularly consider the family they left behind either, but "had their own life". I'm not saying that they should have considered others, just that you can't have your own life, but resent others having theirs. If you move abroad, it's a risk you take.

Almost all my late husband relatives emigrated. We love them dearly and love when they visit. But if they ever returned it works be to a different, yet still loving, family dynamic from the one they left. Our lives have changed in that period. Some of us have had our own families, some of us are caring for older family members, our diaries are pretty full.

Sorry
The alternative is that they mope and dwell on the ABSENCE of the family member.

It is somewhat different if the roles are reversed and the parents move away. I guess they would expect to need to fit around a young family with or without a move overseas. Adapting to the needs of younger family members or caring for older relatives.

The issue is one of rejection.

Rejection of a child is extremely painful, whatever the reason or circumstances. As described by op, she is very hurt and not unreasonably. She considered her family important enough to move back and that feeling has not been reciprocated. I can imagine she feels devastated on some level.

Parents should not be moving on/filling holes and gaps and somehow erasing their child out of their lives, that is what we do with distant relatives/old friends we don't see often and people that are infinitely replaceable. Children for the most part should not be replaceable by boules, brunch on a Friday and tennis.
Rejecting your child and grandchildren will be catastrophic for the relationship in the end, it will be very hard for op to move past this once she has returned, the relationship is likely to cool down even more to perhaps the absolute bare minimum and might break down altogether.

I encouraged her to share her feelings about this with them, as a result, because they deserve to know what is happening and have the chance to turn things around if they want to. Op needs to know that leaving again will compound and confirm their suspicions that she never intended to stay in the first place, and this is cruel to them. She must do all she can to avoid giving them the perfect excuse to blame her for this outcome. She is not to blame. Honesty will throw light on each view and allow a conversation to be had, and a conclusion to be reached with everyone aware of the truth, not their version of it.

Considering this situation from a different perspective......

If the OPs parents had emigrated to be near the OP abroad, where the OP already had a full life setup, would the expectation be that the OP rearrange her own life priorities/friends to fit in regular visits with her parents?

I personally would have been thrilled if my dm had moved close to me overseas, I doubt I would have come back to the UK! I would happily rearrange things to make time for her. I guess I value and love her, call me old fashioned.

Some people like their family members - some don't. Having a biological connection proves nothing & should create no obligation. For me, friends wil always be more important than family because friends are the people we choose and love. And I am talking about friendships of up to 40 years, even though none live locally.
I think, as said previously, none of us have any right to expect the "fatted calf" from our relatives, and it doesn't help anyone to have unrealistic expectations.

I guess it all comes down to family/friends relationships and dynamics so. Not everyone prioritises family over friends as much as you do. Friends can be just as important as family.

Your posts continue to imply that those who don't put family first and foremost are cold, lacking in love, don't value their family etc. I think that's unfair. The situation is not as black and white as you make out and, as is most often the case in life, a balance is best.

This. People know when they’re being used. You say you don’t want childcare but expect your kids to be taken out twice a month.

We are not talking about friends on this thread. Op is talking about family. Specifically about the total absence of interest and time with her parents since she returned.

A child may choose to distance themselves from their parents for various reasons, but if it is the parent that rejects the child, it can be very damaging to MOST children. Let us not pretend it isn't. Life isn't black and white, no but knowing you can count on your parents love, assuming they are not total monsters and abusers is quite standard.

We are talking quite specifically here about parents rejecting a child and young grandchildren.

Time is a finite resource. If a life has been filled with friendships while family is away, you are saying that time now needs to be rescheduled from friends to family.

So the friends comment is relevant.

The GPs could now have a balancing act between friends who have been good to them while family was away and spending time with the grandchildren, who are now here.