AIBU to not want a man and his son using girls changing rooms

[shatteredmama]

Took dd 7 for her swimming lesson, there are separate open plan girls and boys changing rooms (it’s in a school). Was surprised to see a man come in with his young son for him use the showers.

I felt uncomfortable with this, especially as the boy goes to the same school as dd. Also pissed off at the air of entitlement from the man. Couldn’t think of any valid reason for both males to use the girls room.

No other women in there batted an eyelid though. I’ve emailed the swim school to complain but not heard anything back.

Its left me second guessing myself and wondering if I’m making a big deal out of this, and given it was children only getting changed, not women, or the man thankfully!, does that make it ok??

Too fucking right 👏

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, just saying what's right for one 8 year old might not be OK for another.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet. But having a man in the women’s changing rooms means that women and girls from some religious and cultural groups will no longer be able to use the facility. In my children's school it would be about 20% of the pupils, a significant number.

But hey who cares about these unimportant valueless people ( and the kids and mums with special needs / mental health problems / anxiety / trauma victims ) ? If it’s all about a man “ living his personal dream come true through using a changing room”.

Any man who would invade a women's single sex space is the last man that it would be safe to have in such a space. The decent respectful men would never do it.

In this situation, though, the boys and girls are very young and the mums and dads are never changing, I would assume. Right?

@J0CASTA. I agree with your points absolutely and they are important.

YES I have indeed challenged a man in a similar circumstance recently when I was in a WC with baby changing facilities in the communal area of the WC and a woman was changing a baby's nappy when a nan walked in. The facility was one that had been women only, but made into unisex because of some batshit reason.

Anyway, it was in Italy and I speak only basic tourist Italian but I looked the man squarely in the eyes and said NO! Baby! I moved to shield the baby from view. He challenged me and I said no, there is a baby, you cannot go in! He did point to the WC sign and left to go to the other WC that had been made unisex as well.

I hope that my post did not suggest that the blame lay with women, for it lies squarely with the males.I still am saddened more of us don't stand up to men and I stand by my comment. Wonen, just try it! If I can do it, others can! Yes it can be scary, but think of all we have achieved by standing up to injustice! So yes, I have challenged an entitled man. I used to think that I was not able to and yes they can be intimidating but the more I try the easier it gets. As I practice more and get older I feel more confident to do it and I know exactly why men invade our spaces.

wauden

As I practice more and get older I feel more confident to do it and I know exactly why men invade our spaces.

Just interested, what is the reason you believe men invade our spaces? I wonder if it’s unintentional sometimes, or do you believe it’s more sinister and a conscious decision to do so, such as for a power trip or worse, sexual kicks?

Great message deleted. All I was doing was stating things that have lead me not wanting biological males in female only spaces.

Bravo.

Yes, 4-6 year olds. Adults would have individual changing cubicles.

Well no it's not all you were doing. You were also telling other posters to fuck off.

That's a stretch. They didn't address anyone specifically and told them to fuck off. They said that people who thought women should have no rights to be safe from men should fuck off. And who here, would out themselves and disagree with that?

It is a shame that that post was deleted (and I agree with Jenny's interpretation of what it said) because it made a very valid point that I mentioned in the post that was deleted for quoting it, which is :

In what way do women benefit from the removal of single sex spaces? The only people who benefit are male.

Unless you think that a woman's role is merely as support human and our needs are less worthy than those of males who wish to be in our spaces for any reason, then I have no idea why any woman would think that making women's spaces unisex is OK.

I wish a deletec post could be privately accessible so it can be edited as I stand by what I said. I would remove the hurt fee-fees element but it all stands.

The reasons for my strong feelings come from an awful stage of my life that has led to how I feel.

*deleted.

@Pearfacebanana "Why is it not ok for his daughters to go in the mens room but ok for him to come in the girls?"

I've never understood how someone can have this mindset either.

I'm not suggesting that is the answer, just saying what's right for one 8 year old might not be OK for another.

Yes kids are different, but there has to be a line somewhere, otherwise some mothers will also claim that they need to wash their 15-year old son's back. And most facilities with changing rooms in the UK have decided that 8 is the age where most kids can manage themselves, and below that age they can be in opposite sex changing rooms. If an 8-year old can't be let into a changing room by themselves, it's up to a parent to find suitable family changing rooms (or use disabled, if it's due to disability, of course). I have a 9yo DS, he's almost 5ft tall and while he is still my baby boy, I still fully recognise that he would make girls in a changing room uncomfortable, and it is not their job to accommodate him.

"it's up to a parent to find suitable family changing rooms (or use disabled, if it's due to disability, of course)."

Yes I agree but that isn't always available which is why I said before we need to be advocating for female/male/ communal spaces so that everyone's needs are catered for. This takes nothing away from female only spaces but allows for families/disability etc. I think instead of always doubling down that we need to have just female only we should be aiming higher and asking for more overall because that benefits everyone in the long run and protects female only spaces by providing appropriate alternatives.

I think instead of always doubling down that we need to have just female only we should be aiming higher and asking for more overall because that benefits everyone in the long run and protects female only spaces by providing appropriate alternatives.

Well this would be very lovely but it isn't what certain factions of males and their allies are advocating for. Whilst those males and their allies are trying to make ALL women's spaces unisex what is happening is that the boundaries of females are being eroded. This enables men like this father to get away with it because some women are also more anxious to appease the males and their allies than to protect women, see Nicola Sturgeon as a case in point.

The man being in there is unacceptable, well done for emailing.

Can I just ask peoples opinions because I don't want to make people uncomfortable but I am a woman married to a woman and we have a son and daughter. Our son is 8 but he is autistic and can't yet go into changing rooms or public toilets by himself.

I've seen people here saying 8 is the cut off in the UK. I do take him into family bathrooms or disabled if available but I also take him into female toilets with me too and at a swimming baths I'd probably take him the female changing room too. Is this wrong? I'm hoping to start taking him swimming in the new year but now I'm not sure, do swimming baths have disabled changing rooms? We could use those. I'd hate to make any women feel uncomfortable or threatened.

I’m going to be honest @SeasonsHeatings - the older he gets, the more people will feel uncomfortable and because he has an invisible disability, you probably will be questioned.

You’re just going to have to have a few responses up your sleeve for when that happens.

If he needs to be accompanied, he needs to be accompanied. You’ll just need to be sure that he does his best not to make others feel uncomfortable when he’s in there.

@SeasonsHeatings lots of pool have all cubicles now not single sex open-plan rooms, so swimming should be ok with your son.

SeasonsHeatings I think you will need to start seeking out swimming pools with accessible changing areas as otherwise your son will be making others uncomfortable.

I do have sympathy with this situation but that is what disabled facilities/changing areas are for at the end of the day.

I think instead of always doubling down that we need to have just female only we should be aiming higher and asking for more overall because that benefits everyone in the long run and protects female only spaces by providing appropriate alternatives.

Until about 5 minutes ago it was uncontroversial for women to want and expect single sex spaces and now because some men want to invade our spaces we have to expend energy finding a solution which enables us to retain the facilities we campaigned for and rely on in order to participate in public life.

How about the people who think male and female changing facilities are not sufficient for their needs get off their arses and campaign for additional facilities, I'm happy to lend my voice of support but I am not going to acquiesce to ransom demands. Woman are saying no.