AIBU to not want a man and his son using girls changing rooms

[shatteredmama]

Took dd 7 for her swimming lesson, there are separate open plan girls and boys changing rooms (it’s in a school). Was surprised to see a man come in with his young son for him use the showers.

I felt uncomfortable with this, especially as the boy goes to the same school as dd. Also pissed off at the air of entitlement from the man. Couldn’t think of any valid reason for both males to use the girls room.

No other women in there batted an eyelid though. I’ve emailed the swim school to complain but not heard anything back.

Its left me second guessing myself and wondering if I’m making a big deal out of this, and given it was children only getting changed, not women, or the man thankfully!, does that make it ok??

No one was accused, where did you get that from? That wasn’t the issue, the issue was that he was there, the steps put in place to help women feel safe, were over ridden by an entitled male.

It's my understanding that trans people go through lots re. mental health. Therefore if a trans woman who had obviously been through medical treatments/lifestyle changes was to share a changing room with me, I would assume that person had dealt with a lot of internal pain and trauma to get to that point and bloody leave them alone. I definitely would not suspect them of being a pervert as a default. Same goes for if I knew I was getting changed next to a lesbian.

You are operating on an outdated understanding of what it means to be trans which in 2022 makes you transphobic. Transwomen do not owe hormones, surgery or feminity in order to earn your validation, their beards and penises are all perfectly womanly.

As for your lesbophobia.... I would like to report your post for the implication you make about lesbians but I think it's important for everyone to see how bigoted "being kind" can make you.

FYI 98 - 99% of sexual offences are committed by males regardless of how they identify.

the general rule of thumb is children under 8 go into the changing room of their parent, after 8 they go in the correct one for them.

I have never agreed with this rule of thumb. 8 is too young for a child to go into facilities on their own, it's a safeguarding risk and several years before puberty in almost all cases, moreso for boys.

It is very disappointing that no one challenged the man when it happened.

What I was responding to was a pp who accused him of going in there to teach his son how to sneak a peak on naked women. I'm not saying he was accused at the time.

Well he disregarded the safeguarding steps put in place, good people don’t tend to do that, so why would he deserve the benefit of the doubt?

I find your post comparing lesbians to men who identify as trans / Transwomen to be grossly offensive and homophobic.

No it isn't too young at all, especially if the parent is waiting outside.

Also, girls can get their periods at 10, like I did. I also had big breasts before I got my first period, so you're wrong on the puberty timeline. I had boobs at aged 9, which is only one year older than 8. I certainly would not have wanted other boys/men seeing my boobs which even at that age were big enough for a sizeable training bra. Or my tampon string at aged 10 (although I didn't use tampons til much later and on used pads).

I have never agreed with this rule of thumb. 8 is too young for a child to go into facilities on their own, it's a safeguarding risk and several years before puberty in almost all cases, moreso for boys.

The solution, of course, is to campaign for more family changing and toilets. Not ignoring the privacy needs of 8yo children, many of whom are not comfortable with even their opposite sex parent helping with when undressed (eg in the bath).

I've walked into the wrong changing rooms due to partial blindness before and not realised- does that mean I'm a bad person and undeserving of benefit of the doubt? Again I'm not saying that's what happened here op clearly got a bad vibe from this guy earlier on I'm just saying mistakes do happen we are all human so it isn't always something super untoward but I can see why people lean towards that due to statistics and negative experiences. This is why I said there should be male/female/neutral facilities in the first place so everyone has something that caters for them.

You walked in, and then what? Did you shower and change and then only realise after you left?

My kids swimming is the same set up, open plan changing rooms in a school and I have never seen a dad in the ladies! Lots of boys come in to change with their mums, I have seen boys in there that I personally think are far too old (10+) and actually told someone once that I thought her son should stop coming into the changing rooms, he wasn’t even swimming just waiting for his mum and sister! The same as the OP, he was in my dds class at school and I didn’t see why she should have to keep getting changed in front of him.

Hopefully the female role model in the child’s life will rip the man and new one and get it into his head how wrong he was.

I assure you that I will be doing just that

Surely it depends on the child though? One 8 year old might be OK going into a female changing room unattended with dad waiting outside but others might not. Plenty at that age still need help with getting their hair fully clean or wouldn't feel comfortable asking for their belongings etc. Particularly I would not be comfortable standing outside and letting an 8 year old boy go into male changing rooms alone. That's not even taking into account children with additional needs/ trauma.

Showered then left because your belongings are going to be in the right changing room aren't they? So I realised at that point that I couldn't get my locker open. I don't understand how this man and his son changed in the changing rooms in the first place tbh. The shower I can get but the rest doesn't make sense to me- where were their clothes? I'm assuming they didn't bring them into the pool so they must have been in the men's side. Or has mum been there and had to leave or something therefore leaving their stuff in the women's... something there doesn't fit for me.

I can only assume you’ve never challenged an entitled man who is knowingly marching into a space where women and girls are changing . He does it KNOWING that he’s intimidating and he doesn’t care.

All women know what kind of man that is and how he is going to react to any challenge.

A decent, respectful man would never have been in there in the first place. If you don’t believe me, ask any of the men you know IRL if they would go into a room full of primary aged school girls changing into swimwear . Go on, just try it.

I guarantee that they will all say “ Fuck no, of course not. I’m not some kind of pervert / weirdo “.

( unless they are middle class , left wing weird beardy woke bro dudes without kids of course )

Bevause it’s not just women who know what kind of man does things like that, it’s your average bloke in the street as well. I work with a team of tradesmen and I know what every one of them would say about this.

We all know what it’s about.

It’s about power and control, putting women and girls in their place . Letting them know that they only get to exist in public on mens say so and with mens permission. That their privacy and dignity come second to a man’s preferences and convenience . That they have no rights of their own, only as men allow them.

Well indeed. On top of that, being short sighted is one thing but unless they were hard of hearing too, you’d think he’d have heard female voices, especially as children were there.

Well we’ll done you. Of course girls and women shouldn’t worry about being seen naked by a man who fancied using the girls changing rooms and showers, must bow down to the wants of men.

100 years ago you would have been one of those women, oh we don’t need the vote, the oh so clever important men will do the voting.

so you’re happy to tell your daughter she has to strip naked in front of any random man who decides he wants her to, how very modern of you.

women like you make me so angry, so intent on following the agenda and seeming so on trend you’re willing to put the safety of women and girls at risk. Good luck with the next hashtag you blindly follow, because one day it will be about you.

No I get that, that's why I'm saying the shower bit at the entrance makes sense the rest doesn't really the more I think about the original post.

Bear in mind this is a school pool not a general public one. So it's not like the child is going to walk in and be surrounded by a bunch of pervy old men in the mens room. It's parents and kids. And the parents should be in their own sex changing room for safeguarding reasons.

If an 8 year old girl can't wash their own hair after swimming then dad can help them at home.
There should be no problem with an 8 year old girl getting dressed without a parent as long as there are only females using the changing room.
And it's a children's swimming lesson. So an 8 year old boy should be fine in the men's on their own. If really worried then your options are several - ask another parent to keep an eye on them, get them to put on a tracksuit and come straight out and change in the car, don't send them to swimming lessons. The answer is not for a male to go in the female changing room.

This is awful and so damaging. I was confronted by a man exposing himself in the changing rooms (individual cubicles, communal lockers he was stood naked by , it scared me so much I am just going back swimming 9 months later.

You can raise you son to respectful and that regardless of sex/gender everyone has boundaries.

That protected rights are there for a reason not to be erased. If you think a specific group should have these same rights, they campaign for them just like their ancestors did.

This all starts at home and how they see the various adults in their life treat each other.

Personally I don’t live in fear of everyman. I would be a bigger wreck that I am. However I do fear men who invade my space and even more so where I am in a vulnerable situation. I try and avoid being in those situations knowing what happens to me.

It’s how I raised my sons to grow up.

Good grief - of course it’s not ok! And I’d have very loudly told him so.

Fucking entitled prick.

Of course it's wrong. What a silly Billy you are.