Be honest: Do you judge married women without kids?

[oxymomon]

When you meet a woman who has been married for years, and doesn't have children, do you (A) make assumptions about why they don't have children; (B) ask them why they don't have children (feel it's your place to seek answers); (C) judge them for not having children; (D) all of the above; or (E) none of the above? Be honest. What do you really think...

This didn't occur to me until someone else articulated it but you are right. It's a thing I told myself often when in a particularly painful, awkward situation at work. I irrationality felt as though people were judging me, and just wanted to spend my time hiding in a corner. But of for the most part, of course, nobody gave a stuff as they were too busy getting on with their own lives and work to give more than a throwaway thought to me.

It's a truth I find oddly comforting reassuring and comforting. And it applies just as much to me as the next person.

I’m childfree and have been for a long time, but then became infertile after a lifesaving total hysterectomy. One of my colleagues at the time got herself into a total state about it, initially asking if I’d already had kids, then realising that meant I’d never have them, and before I could stop her she started crying and saying if it was a choice between death and her kids she’d rather die.

I wanted children but couldn't have them. If it came to a choice between having children and dying or not having them and living I would choose to live.

Thank you too for such an interesting prompt - I appreciate the opportunity to reflect and hopefully grow a bit. As you've said, life is (hopefully) long and learning is continuous!

I'm one of them so no I'd never judge!

Don’t judge. May wonder in passing if it’s through choice or fertility issues, but I wouldn’t think about it for more than a moment.

E None of the above.

I never actually thought to ask why because it’s none of my business and not for me to know nor do I feel the need to know.

What would you be judging them for though? Surely to 'judge' someone implies you think they have something wrong?

As for the question "Do you have children?", surely it's just small talk, I don't consider it terribly intrusive. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just answer "No. You?" I don't get offended. I might slightly hope they don't want to show me lots of photos but really I don't mind other people chatting about their kids.

I think it's none of my damn business!

I’ve been a regular recipient of what I like to call the ‘double judge’: the immediate assumption that you didn’t or couldn’t procreate and therefore focussed on becoming wildly successful and wealthy, then absolute bafflement or even disgust that you’re not as successful or wealthy as they assumed you’d be.

There are more than two modes of how to be a woman.

Yes this is bang on! I also think there's is a big difference between asking if someone has kids/is single/married etc.
It's the why don't you have kids that is unnecessary. Also I can only speak for myself but, there isn't one single simple reason why I don't have kids so what am I supposed to say?
I think the next time someone asks I might ask them why do they want to know.

Ha! I've had this too!

😳No! It doesn’t occur to me to even think about it. It’s actually none of my business and has no impact on my life.

Interesting how you mentioned the married women but not the men. 🤔

I am one. So E, plus I’d do a little happy dance that there’s another one like me.

E. I wanted to be child-free for life (by choice) until a year ago. I still think that if it happens, it happens and if not I wont chase it with IVF etc.

I massively agree with the comment that "Do you have children?" is a question i think should be banned from conversations. If anything, it should be flipped more often than it is to "Why DO you have children?". That's also a valid question and equally as offensive as the first question.

If someone said they hadn't got kids, I'd wonder why. If they had 12 I'd wonder why. I think it's a natural state of human curiosity to wonder about things that aren't typical in your own world. Most of my friends who are married got married then had kids because you get married first. Most of the ones without kids haven't got married.

But

There's a difference between
Do you have kids?
No
OK. So what did you think about X

And

Do you have kids?
No.
Oh, what? Wow. You've been married 1p years right? Wow. That's unusual. Oh erm so yeah, what did you think about X?

OK not great examples but both are "I'd never ASK!!". One is clearly judgemental.

E

As explained in a thread. Men do not get the same judgment and are not generally told they don't know what real love is and their life has really no proper meaning until they have kids

It wouldn't even cross my mind. I couldn't give a shit about what other people decide to do or not do with their lives.

None of the above, not having kids is a perfectly unremarkable thing to do and there might be lots of reasons why.

But my family includes a number of married women who never had kids, so it's kind of normalised for me.

I think I’d mind my own business.
I was married a fair time before I had my son, if anyone would have asked me I’d have cried as I was having severe fertility issues and was told I’d never conceive. My son proved otherwise but it’s such a personal thing

E. It is none of my business, and no one has a duty to have children.

And why just the woman anyway? It takes two to produce children.

Would you judge a man too or is this judgement just reserved for women?

I am totally with you, society today is still all about kids and if you don’t have kids you are an strange outsider. I know that my wife gets asked this a lot, especially at weddings, funerals and at work.

However, men are not better, I get confronted with the topic of why I don’t have kids on a weekly basis. Unfortunately, my wife and I can’t get kids, at the time it was a horrible emotional roller coaster that went on for quite a few years. Unfortunately, I now get reminded to that period on a weekly basis.

Some examples on how men confront other men

• A colleague and friend, once told me outright that he does not trust people who do not have kids, needless to say, he seized to be a friend form that moment.

• Pretty much every business trip, colleagues just keep going on about their kids, and how they love spending time with them (even though they are mostly traveling or extra-long hours in the office so they don’t have to deal with their kids), and constantly trying to get me to open about my non-existing kids, sorry but I am here on business, I’m not your friend, why do you think it is suitable to share photos of your kids with a stranger?

• Once at a wedding, we watched in shock, when another guest was directed in our direction with the comment “they also don’t do kids”

• If a colleague is expecting a child, I’m probably the only one in the office truly happy for him, as I know what it means not to have a child, however at the same time it is hard for me to get confronted with it, and there is no one to talk to for men, it seems to be a taboo subject.

• And if you are in the illusion that our society is not cantered around the “perfect family” try watching TV around Christmas time.

I definitely wouldn’t “judge” and i definitely wouldn’t ask, I am not even sure if I would wonder.

I am a woman that has been married a long time but childless. I definitely would not appreciate being asked about this by a casual acquaintance, fortunately I have found the majority of people do not ask questions like that.

A colleague and friend, once told me outright that he does not trust people who do not have kids, needless to say, he seized to be a friend form that moment.

Harold Shipman, Stalin and Fred West had children, to name but three….

Yes it does seem that a “ family man” is the best thing a man can be.