To stop seeing this friend and not tell her why?

[Lolabear38]

I’ve been friends with the mum of a friend of my kids for around 2 years. She is awful for making plans and cancelling at the last minute, plans she has organised herself and also plans I, or others have made too. I’ve been avoiding making plans with just her/ her kids for a while now because she cancels so often. I only really see her if others are coming too so I know we won’t be let down at the last minute. Full disclosure, she doesn’t always cancel but she does a lot. My son is pretty much best friends with her son and our daughters also get on really well.

Last weekend we had agreed to go to a theatre show. Against my better judgement, just us and them. I was worried all week about her cancelling so I actually messaged her and said that my sister and her kids really wanted to go to the show but didn’t get tickets so if for any reason she thought she wouldn’t make it, let me know and I would offer the tickets to my sister instead.

The day came with no word from her so I figured we were good to go only for her to message 25 minutes before the show started, when me and my kids were already at the theatre, to say she wasn’t coming as she was feeling sick.

Now, I don’t actually know if she was sick or not, she may have been in which case of course she shouldn’t have come. The problem is she has flaked out SO MANY times before that I just don’t believe her and I don’t really have time for flaky people in mine or my kids lives (my kids enjoyed the show but we’re disappointed not to be spending the day with their friends as they thought they would be).

I’ve decided not to see this friend any more because she’s let me down so many times in the past, but we are part of a wider group of friends who I still want to see etc so I don’t want to fall out with this woman. I’ve not messaged her but I’ve replied to any of her messages politely, but briefly. Now she’s messaged me asking what’s wrong - I don’t want to ignore it but I don’t want to cause awkwardness in the group by just coming out and telling her that I don’t want to be close friends with her any more because of her behaviour. AIBU to just not tell her and just let things cool off on their own?

(our kids would still see each other at school and I would do kids only play dates, just not see the mum/ do things together on weekends etc).

It could help her to understand the impact on others and so be a kind thing to do.. you need to approach it in the right way

Do you consider these people real friends or just people you spend time with?

I think that's the key. If none of them are real friends this is adequate but not good.

If they are peoplr you consider real friends, giving this feedback whilst avoiding drama is important.

I would handle this by arranging to go for a coffee. Explain to her that is disappointing your kids and you don't want to put them through that. Happy to catch up in groups but think it might be good to avoid doing things where our family relies on you being there. I would expect you to give her a chance to improve too.

Your current approach is quite cowardly and stereotypically "British" but not in a good way, the kind of way that is not a feature that other countries do things for good reason.

I'd find this maddening too . People always understand stuff happens but when they keep letting you down it's not fair .
Because you are part of a wider social circle with this woman I'd not tell her directly incase she bad mouthed you to others eg x is a bitch she was is blanking me because I was sick and had to cancel our theatre trip ! I'd do exactly as others have said , be civil , non committal and politely decline any invitations with a ' oh I'd love to have gone but sadly can't because of xyz. She'll get the message at some point .

Thanks for your input. It’s always good to see/ hear different perspectives which is why I posted in the first place.

I disagree that it’s cowardly, though. I think I’ve taken action to avoid being let down and my kids being let down in the future. It also avoids potential conflict amongst a group of people (probably by your definition, more ‘people I spend time with’ but some are friends) that I want to continue to see and spend time with.

One of the other reasons I’m avoiding directly talking to her about it, other than the reasons I’ve already mentioned, is that I’m just not sure she cares. I say this because I find it difficult to see how someone who could repeatedly let people down like this could actually care? If they did, surely they wouldn’t keep doing it? Harsh maybe. I have other reasons for thinking this too which I haven’t gone into on this post in fairness. On their own each thing is something small but added together leads me to think differently.

Regarding your point about giving her chance to improve - I think I’ve passed that point (by my own fault). It’s happened so many times and the theatre trip was the straw that broke the camels back. Something that disappointed my children so much is something I’ll find hard to get over (especially as it’s by far not the first time) and I’ve lost too much respect for her now to be able to give her a second chance I think. Perhaps if I’d done it sooner it could have helped.

This happens loads. Just drift away and meet on group stuff, no big confrontation as it's awkward for the kids and it's dramatic and unnecessary.

You are not being unreasonable. Sounds like she will lose in this situation but you will gain.

That’s so frustrating. I wouldn’t make any plans with her again. But continue to be friendly when you see her to avoid any issues as your children are friends. I have a friend who nearly always cancels, she’s got form for it for many years. She lives a few hundred miles away so I don’t see her often but her son lives around 30 mins from me. So when I’m meant to see her she’s generally babysitting for her son. She cancels on him too, I’d imagine he’s very angry with her as this has happened around 5/6 times in the last 2yrs. Her poor grandson is old enough too now to know Nanny is coming. I don’t understand it, she nearly always says car trouble or sick

@Lolabear38 I think you're doing the right thing and I don't understand why some others seem to think it's on you to 'Be kind' or explain to this woman why somethings wrong. She clearly knows how many times she's cancelled on you so l do wonder if she's either a- just not giving a shit or b- wants to find a way to be the wronged party to the rest of the group

I can understand you wanting to drop her for something like the theatre. That was totally unfair on your kids. I have family, who are like this and for me, it i a gargantuan effort to prepare to be well enough to meet people and I cannot always succeed.

Otoh, I was dropped by a group of women even though they knew and witnessed my poor health. They invited me to day things, I could do that. But evenings were tricky and overnight stuff impossible. I told them my limitations and that I would go to events in the evening if I felt well enough and would just let them know on the day. Made not a jot of difference and they decided I was not up to par. They probably saw me as flaky. But their behaviour was very hurtful, the same as this woman to you.

“One of the other reasons I’m avoiding directly talking to her about it, other than the reasons I’ve already mentioned, is that I’m just not sure she cares. I say this because I find it difficult to see how someone who could repeatedly let people down like this could actually care? If they did, surely they wouldn’t keep doing it? Harsh maybe. I have other reasons for thinking this too which I haven’t gone into on this post in fairness. On their own each thing is something small but added together leads me to think differently.“

You would know right enough, trust your instincts.
Some people genuinely have no regard for other peoples time.

I also don't think you are cowardly, neither do I think you are responsible for helping her to gain insight into her behaviour. I think she already knows her impact, otherwise she wouldn't have asked you what was wrong. Back away. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Absolutely fine to expect more from a friendship. I have done the same myself with someone who made a game out of what time to meet. Fuck that.

It's not cowardly to not tell her. She will know anyway. I can't see the point in creating drama and friction for a dead in the water 2 year friendship. If it was a long term valuable friendship it would be worth talking about it. I can't see the point of bothering here though.

Can I be honest with you.

I don't think she was ever a friend of yours, and I am not sure she considers you to be a 'friend'. Your children are good friends, but that is where it stops. The group is there for convenience and for the children, nothing more.

That is probably why she sees flexibility and isn't bothered by cancelling or changing things. She is not that into the friendship in the first place. It is optional for her.
How many times have you sat down with her and had meaningful conversations about things that really matter? How many times have you both been there for each other at moments of extreme upset or stress? Do you actually care about her? Really? Do you see her as part of your life in years to come? I think you are mixing up real friendship with friends of convenience. One set is going to command far more investment than the other.

Maybe the children didn't want to go to the theatre with yours?
Maybe they have had a falling out and you don't know about it.
It seems unlikely she would let her own children down without very good reason.

To me it is as clear as day as you are seeing her as a friend, and she is seeing you as just another parent at the school.

Downgrade the friendship to the right level. Easy going arrangements with the whole group for your child, and stop seeing her as friend material, this doesn't sound anything like a friendship to me. For a start a real friend would have picked up the phone and asked if everything was okay, why the cancellations not because they were annoyed but because they were concerned. It is the case with real friendships there is true honesty and congruence and that is missing from this arrangement.

I did ask the friend why they kept cancelling and I got a load of nonsense (that I think was supposed to be flattering) about how I was like a sibling, so it was ok to let me down.

Yes - I had one like this. Effectively "I can treat you like sh*t with no repercussions because we are so close and you care for me so much that you'll just keep coming back for more".

she was wrong.

@Emotionalsupportviper is that where they try the weird compliment 'oh you know what I'm like, sooo glad can just be me around you and not have to make effort and pretend'.....

That's the one @MichelleScarn

"I don't need to even treat you with common courtesy and can reveal my most unpleasant traits, because you accept me just as i am."

Well a response saying they are flakey because they feel so comfortable around you is really saying your an established doormat in their life.

I'm a bit of a doormat too. Takes far too long of putting up with this kind of stuff before I have enough

I totally get how horrible it is being on the receiving end of this. I just wonder if she has anxiety? I have pretty acute anxiety and sometimes I make plans because I feel I should (for the kids etc) but I find the build up absolutely excruciating (it can ruin my week having an “event” looming). An event could be anything from the hairdressers to a social event. And sometimes when it comes to it, I just can’t make myself go as it makes me feel so unwell. I tend to not commit to stuff (so slightly different to your mate) but sometimes I force myself to just to try and be normal. It might not be the same but thought it was worth saying x

Good grief, why all the ridiculous pandering. This former friend has behaved really rather badly why humour her! Be direct that you are fed up with her letting you down. Probably about time someone pulled her up about her shitty behaviour.

I get where you are coming from, but as your kids get on well and you have to see her anyway, I think I would take a different approach. If she asks you to meet up and it's not something you are interested in then decline. But if (like the theatre) it's something you know the kids would love then go ahead and make plans to go BUT assume she isn't coming. Don't tell the kids you are meeting them. If at the last minute they cancel, who cares? You wanted to go anyway and kids have a good time. I might be tempted to ignore messages flaking or respond late with something like 'oh I forgot you were coming'.

The old saying: actions speak louder then words. I don’t think you are being cowardly or wrong to not spell it out for her verbally. No one does that on a repeated basis and not know what they are doing or how it negatively impacts on others. She knows. If she doesn’t she’ll figure it out.

That's interesting. I could imagine taking this approach if they are more in the category of people you like to spend time with but aren't "friends" as such.

I have a friend who is close and "flakes" out. She has anxiety and feels really overwhelmed sometimes. I don't have this, so I don't really understand. But I have listened to her enough to feel sympathy. She really does care and this is partly why she finds herself in this situation. She is an amazing person but sometimes just gets stuck. Because we are close we talk about it and her well-being is important to me over our plans. She does care, maybe this is similar with your friend or maybe not. But this is why I would have that conversation.

Having said that, extra guilt wouldn't help. And so if you did address it, you would have to handle it in the right way.

I can also see how things can go too far. It's easier to keep forgiving and then at someone you are like no, my line was back there.

The other aspect to consider, is she might also keep asking and the lack of communication might cause more conflict than if you had a quick conversation face to face. I think the conversation would be hard if you can't see how she would be able to redeem herself. Which is why I got the sense that aren't a real friend.

I like this idea as a way to manage your children's disappointment. This could be a soon you agree to if you speak to her about it openly. Would her kids tell your kids?

On that note, how do her kids feel? They missed out after all. I could imagine they were even more disappointed than your kids

Your current approach is quite cowardly and stereotypically "British" but not in a good way, the kind of way that is not a feature that other countries do things for good reason.

Yes, some cultures are more direct and open. Others are far more indirect than British culture and that serves a function in those cultures. This might be quite British, but not uniquely so.

There are arguments for and against being direct, both generally and in this situation, but one that is persuasive to me is that the simple fact that the op clearly doesn’t want to be. Since she’s the one who has been inconvenienced and let down repeatedly, I don’t know why the onus on her is now to put herself in an uncomfortable position for this friend. The word “cowardly” implies that the op is shying away from something difficult she should do - I really don’t think there’s any such obligation here.

Agree, @Dolleey - and as the two women are part of the same, larger friendship group, being "direct could cause a rift in more than one relationship, which would be a shame.

To maintain a friendly exterior while gently distancing herself is the right way to go to my mind.

I have never had a good outcome from pointing out flakiness. Just more stress for me. There is no obligation, OP has done nothing wrong. I don't think it is either British or cowardly tbh.