To stop seeing this friend and not tell her why?

[Lolabear38]

I’ve been friends with the mum of a friend of my kids for around 2 years. She is awful for making plans and cancelling at the last minute, plans she has organised herself and also plans I, or others have made too. I’ve been avoiding making plans with just her/ her kids for a while now because she cancels so often. I only really see her if others are coming too so I know we won’t be let down at the last minute. Full disclosure, she doesn’t always cancel but she does a lot. My son is pretty much best friends with her son and our daughters also get on really well.

Last weekend we had agreed to go to a theatre show. Against my better judgement, just us and them. I was worried all week about her cancelling so I actually messaged her and said that my sister and her kids really wanted to go to the show but didn’t get tickets so if for any reason she thought she wouldn’t make it, let me know and I would offer the tickets to my sister instead.

The day came with no word from her so I figured we were good to go only for her to message 25 minutes before the show started, when me and my kids were already at the theatre, to say she wasn’t coming as she was feeling sick.

Now, I don’t actually know if she was sick or not, she may have been in which case of course she shouldn’t have come. The problem is she has flaked out SO MANY times before that I just don’t believe her and I don’t really have time for flaky people in mine or my kids lives (my kids enjoyed the show but we’re disappointed not to be spending the day with their friends as they thought they would be).

I’ve decided not to see this friend any more because she’s let me down so many times in the past, but we are part of a wider group of friends who I still want to see etc so I don’t want to fall out with this woman. I’ve not messaged her but I’ve replied to any of her messages politely, but briefly. Now she’s messaged me asking what’s wrong - I don’t want to ignore it but I don’t want to cause awkwardness in the group by just coming out and telling her that I don’t want to be close friends with her any more because of her behaviour. AIBU to just not tell her and just let things cool off on their own?

(our kids would still see each other at school and I would do kids only play dates, just not see the mum/ do things together on weekends etc).

Maybe she has MH problems, maybe she's constipated, maybe she has acid reflux, maybe she has a leaky bladder...

The OP is not talking about consigning this flakey friend for all eternity to Devil's Island, just pulling back from making any more plans with her after the umpteenth disappointment.

You don’t owe her an explanation, surely she’s old and ugly enough to work it out herself.

I would definitely back-off her and think any self-respecting person would.

She knows very well her behaviour is shitty, so no need spell it out, because you’ll look like the bad one.

Don’t make any plans that involve small children then.

I wouldn't bother addressing it.

Avoid making plans with her and stick to it. If she mentions arranging a day to meet be vague and say yeah let's do it soon, or words to that effect. It's not like she bothers about actually meeting you or appreciates that you've kept that time free to meet her. She's selfish. Keep her at a distance. Be pleasant with her for an easier life but don't bother beyond that.

Very difficult to follow this thread with stuff deleted and so on. I do feel though that there could be an underlying problem. You don't need to be her bestie, but you've obviously been close and to just withdraw from her could be quite distressing. Be honest?

... I guess I'm saying be kind.

Have you ever stopped to think she’s got depression or maybe anxiety? And that she feels she can’t discuss how it’s effecting her cancelling plans is normal behaviour from people who suffer mentally. I’m not making excuses for your friend but it’s something to consider, maybe she really does want to come and meet you that’s why she cancels so late in the day but then her anxiety takes over and she can’t bring herself to leave the house.

Still doesn't mean OP should just put up with it though. Not arranging anything just them seems fair, it isn't excluding the friend or making group meets awkward but avoids the inevitable flakiness.

And what of it? Really? My time has the same restrictions as everyone else…I can’t rewind time or recreate more time. If my free time is wasted it remains wasted, whoever has wasted it. When that happens on the regular one makes a choice…to donate the time or not.

As a younger woman I would have pizzled the time and understanding away on this woman. At 47 now, there would be no further arrangements made.

Fwiw I take meds for depression and anxiety. I have turned up to events trembling with my perspective flying about on the ceiling rather than let people down or make a up a bullshit lie. I have also confessed that I don’t want to follow through on something because I’m all over the place. Why? Because I still have respect for other peoples time even though I’m fucking fleeing. And I’m not a liar.

Talk to her. Be honest about how its upsetting your kids. Sounds like she has an underlying problem (anxiety?) that she might need help with. See if she opens up. If not quietly retreat.

Book "stuff/outings" for yourself and family, Ping her a message, Say, We're going to "this event" here's the Link, so you can book in if you want to go.
Then the onus is on her, if she books in and drops out at the last minute, then it's here money, and time, not yours.
Give these types of people a coulple of chances, and if they fail to live up to what you concider politeness, Move on, You do not have to be friends with her, just because your Kids are.

Thanks for writing this down.

It will be tough. But I think you need to tell them why. Because I have been in a similar situation where the boot was on the other foot.

I was good friends with a with a woman for about 6 years. We got on great, never let each other down. Then she just stopped, over time, answering texts, didn't make arrangements to go out, sent her husband to drop kids off and so on (our kids were friends). Normally she'd come and we'd have tea and a long chat.

I still don't know what happened. I'm not the sort of person to ask why she has blanked me. I've asked if she's ok and stuff. But she clearly doesn't want anything to do with me.

I was sad and missed her. But now I'm angry and I don't want anything to do with her. Because I think what she's done to me is horrible.

But to this day I'm desperate to know why.

You should tell her.

There are times when someone pulls away and we don't know what we've done - but it wouldn't take a genius to think back and go, hold on, the last thing that happened was I pulled out of that show 25 minute before it started and she did tell me she had others who wanted to see it if I wasn't sure...

My field of work is with people who can be suicidal, have severe depression and / anxiety disorders. (And sometimes people who lack capacity or whose mental health issues are so severe they no longer have insight. )

It is truly exasperating when random MNers pop up to angrily make wholly discriminatory statement that " X only behaves badly as they must have MH problems/ depression / social anxiety... ... therefore OP / everyone else must understand them and never take them up on their destructive / problematic behaviour that hurts other people and other peoples children"

Firstly, selfish behaviour (letting people down constantly) is not caused by mental health problems. It may coincide with mental health problems and certain aspects may cause difficulties but it is not the cause. It is a choice to make plans where others depend on you repeatedly and withdraw last minute repeatedly.

Someone operating at OPs friends level of functioning is not so severely impaired that they are unable to make that choice. It does not help anyone to collude with or make excuses for problematic behaviours negatively impacting on others, especially if minor children are being impacted.

Many people with mental health problems such as depression & anxiety disorders are more sensitive to others feelings not careless of them and more aware of the impact of their behaviour on others.
Usually the person will express the difficulty at some level repeatedly to others & frequently go on a self blame spiral . (Unless they have some type of disconnect with others, none of which are even slightly suggested in OPs account. )

It is disheartening to read so much disablism/ ableism

• from these posters claiming (with no evidence to suggest so) that any bad behaviour os due to "mental health problems depression.. social anxiety"

Such stereotypes are unhelpful & have no place in todays society

Regardless, OPs friend has had plenty of opportunity to choose to act differently or to raise that she has difficulties with OP.

It's not unreasonable at all for OP to not make any further individual plans with this friend.

OP isn't suggesting she cuts her off and never speaks to her again, she is saying she doesn't want her children nor herself constantly on receiving end of this problematic behaviour of this friend (the actual making plans others rely on when friend is fully aware she lets others down at last minute and chooses not to mitigate the impact of that). The friend has choices - as she is aware this may be her behaviour at the last minute.

@Tiani4's post is excellent.

While obviously people don't tell their friends everything, OP is better placed to know if her friend might have MH/domestic abuse issues that could be the reason she keeps cancelling that randoms on the internet hearing part of a story second hand.

But even if she did, you can have MH problems and also be an arsehole. Even if friend did suffer with social anxiety etc that doesn't mean she is also completely unaware of how her own actions affect others. By the 3rd or 4th time she's cancelled on OP last minute any decent person would either be thinking they need to tell OP the real reason they keep cancelling, or at the very least offer better apologies that 'sorry car issues' or whatever she says, or decide to stop agreeing to meet people if she knows she is unlikely to keep to it.

Plus as a pp said - OP isn't suggesting she shuns the woman forevermore and tells everyone she meets what an unreliable user she is. She's just suggesting taking a small step back from the relationship. People do that all the time and are entitled to do so for whatever reason she chooses. Being in a friendship doesn't mean you have to mutually commit to maintaining exactly the same level of intensity and contact for the rest of time - pretty much all friendships tend to wane and change as kids get older, people move away, jobs change, etc. It's natural. You don't have to formally break up or renegotiate friendship terms or have in depth discussions about why you might not be seeing someone as often and everything you don't like about them!

No need to #be kind when OP isn't suggesting being in any way unkind!

Thank you so much for this. It makes so much sense.

I have to say I find it incredibly frustrating when someone posts something like ‘Friend has treated me badly, it’s really upset me’ and then read responses like ‘she’s probably got mh problems, how dare you be upset you terrible friend, put up with it as it sounds like she has anxiety’. The association between mh issues and it being ok to treat people badly/ be an arsehole just seems so incredibly insulting to people who are genuinely suffering and not behaving in an inconsiderate way. It worries me a little that mental health is almost being diluted and minimised as much of the #metoo movement was, it’s losing it’s impact and respect as people just bandy the term about so freely with not always a lot of thought.

Thank you
@Lolabear38 and @latetothefisting

As you can see I too find this frustrating as it perpetuates negative stereotypes of people experiencing mental health issues , in a terribly discriminatory way.

Earlier in this post was a very vocal PP 'calling people ignorant and stupid' for "not seeing or understanding there must be mental health issues going on for the friend" It was disappointing to read this level of erroneous and discriminatory attitudes & thinking by those misinformed posters, in current society.

My service/ We do try to educate the public but apparently it misses some people! 😱

@Lolabear38
If you can take heart from
Clearer thinking and Informed posters on your thread, then that is a good thing.

As some other PPs have said, in these circs you don't have to explain, your friend knows she lets you down. She is not unaware of this.

The best way to preserve what is only a two year friendship of friend behaving this way is to be part of group and include her but so not buy her tickets and do not rely on her. As a parent you take protective steps for your own DCs who are being upset by friends behaviour and actions, Friend can book her own tickets.

So I strongly suggest next time book with your Dsis and children to go with yours to an event- and leave those who are unreliable to sort themselves out - i.e. welcome to join making their own arrangements (but so you and your DCs are not negatively impacted by their behaviour nor attendance or not)

You sound like a thoughtful and patient friend.

Have you actually sat down with her on her own and asked her if she is okay?

I have a friend who has chronic fatigue syndrome who regularly cancels - yes it can be irritating and seem flaky, but I know it isn’t flakiness that drives this.
I also have another friend who regularly cancels because she’s being controlled on what she does by her partner.
Even if it is neither of these things perhaps you could look at it from the point of view of your children being disappointed.
Maybe she genuinely was feeling sick, in which case I would have asked if she was okay and offered to take her children along too so that my own and hers had some fun.
I would definitely have a conversation - doesn’t need to be confrontational - and let her know how you feel and how it affects things around her.
You know it’s the grown-up thing to do. That way you all know what’s going on - ignoring her question is not grown up it’s childish.

I haven’t sat down with her and asked her if she’s ok, no. I could try to and hope it works out, but she would probably cancel on me! Other than that I have frequently messaged her to ask if she’s ok when she has cancelled, which she responds to and has never told me there is anything serious of the likes you mentioned going on. Doesn’t mean there isn’t, but if she’s not telling me then what am I supposed to do? Neither has she tried to talk to me about anything like it when we have met. Neither have I seen any evidence of anything like chronic fatigue/ ME.

I’m not sure what you mean by me looking at it from the point of view of my kids being disappointed- that’s exactly how I am looking at it already. It’s one of the main reasons for my dilemma - I’m sick of my kids (as well as me) being let down at the last minute by her. The onus is on her to worry about letting her own children down.

Yes, maybe she was genuinely sick. I did of course ask if she was ok. I couldn’t offer to take her children along with us because she let me know so close to the start time that we were already there, waiting for her, so I couldn’t leave again to go and get her children, we’d have missed the start.

I’ve explained my thinking for not talking to her about it and it’s not childish. If I was scaling back contact or excluding her out of spite then yes it would be, but the reason I’m doing it is to avoid potentially making things awkward for the larger group. That’s not childish. As I, and others have already pointed out, I’m not cutting contact with her completely and won’t be ignoring her, I will literally just not be making any 1:1 plans with her any more.

Havent RTFT Does she have money worries? Agrees/suggests stuff to do and then cant afford it but is too embarrased to say?

As I, and others have already pointed out, I’m not cutting contact with her completely and won’t be ignoring her, I will literally just not be making any 1:1 plans with her any more.

I think that is very sensible
And best for your DCs

As you said, even when you asked friend after each cancellation she made (& then cancelled last minute) if everything is ok ? And your friend has never said any of the many varied imagined (by PPs) issues she may have... Nor said that anything specific is causing her difficulties... then it's impossible for you to do any different.

All the evidence from your Friend , whom you know better than any PPs on here, is that she is someone who simply finds herself not wanting to go at the last minute . i.e. someone who flakes on every arrangement she makes with you.

Difficult to understand why it has come full circle multiple times back to what you said at the start, except that PPs aren't RTFT !

Yes, this is the kind way to respond.
People who flake for reasons listed here usually feel terribly guilty, and think they can go, until suddenly whatever awfulness rears up and bites.
Please consider doing as this poster suggests.