Page 40 | To expect my DiL to come to us for Xmas?

maryanne3 · 2022-11-07T12:52:03+00:00

Another year, and yet again my daughter in law has announced that she will be going to her parents for Xmas. She says DS can do as he chooses, and in the past he has just come to us by himself; but I know he misses being with her at Xmas. We get along well with her otherwise, and I understand that she comes from a big family, some of whom live in France, and it is difficult to organise them all getting together over Xmas, but they have been a couple for 16 years now and she has never come to us for the day. AIBU to expect that we get a turn every other year?

TTCournumberthree · 09/11/2022 10:12

Hadtocomment · 09/11/2022 08:47

@maryanne3 the quote you took from TCournumberthree was perfectly nice and trying to be helpful and just a sarcastic reply. Perhaps you're not totally aware of how it can come across, and I understand maybe you feel under siege as it's a long thread. But the sarcasm made me start to question if this was real or a real dilemma for you because it's not coming across like you want to understand more about it or the DIL's point of view or other people's ways of looking at it or anything really. So it's not clear what this thread is. The sarcasm and cold tone about your DIL comes across, maybe unintentionally. Others tried to point it out and you pushed back, but I've also picked up a lot of resentment and not much warmth or reality in the way you speak about her. People pointing that out might be helpful (if this situation is real) because it might be that more resentment might be communicating itself to her than you realise, and if you care about that, it might be worth thinking about. Certainly there is pressurising going on, which I pointed out. You deny this, but the point is that it will feel like pressure from the other side. MAybe you don't care, but if you do care about not wanting to pressure, it could be useful to see how this might come across from another point of view.

Being more straightforward you could always just be direct. Say I'd love to have a full family christmas on the day one year. Do you think that might be possible, if not I'll shut up about it. And if they say yes, then you have a result, if they say actually X will always spend with family, but will see you other times, you can say fine, and at least you'll know where you are and can put the whole issue to bed.

Thanks @Hadtocomment

I’m a bit of a mediator and was just offering a suggestion xx

Middleagedspreadisreal · 09/11/2022 10:16

I totally understand where you're coming from, my son and dil always choose her family over us, for xmas day and boxing day, meaning we're alone which I hate. And it hurts. I have expressed my feelings , asked if they'd 'take turns' too, which only made things worse unfortunately.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:19

Middleagedspreadisreal · 09/11/2022 10:16

I totally understand where you're coming from, my son and dil always choose her family over us, for xmas day and boxing day, meaning we're alone which I hate. And it hurts. I have expressed my feelings , asked if they'd 'take turns' too, which only made things worse unfortunately.

yes, sympathies dear. Seems MiL land is just too far away for many to imagine now.

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lifeinthehills · 09/11/2022 10:21

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:19

yes, sympathies dear. Seems MiL land is just too far away for many to imagine now.

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I am a MIL and my child often goes to the ILs for their Christmas. It's the only time they get to see some members of that family, and I understand that's important. I get to see them far more during the year, which is far more important to me (but maybe not to you). Overall, I feel like I win.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:24

lifeinthehills · 09/11/2022 10:21

I am a MIL and my child often goes to the ILs for their Christmas. It's the only time they get to see some members of that family, and I understand that's important. I get to see them far more during the year, which is far more important to me (but maybe not to you). Overall, I feel like I win.

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those are your circumstances. Actually, if I was counting (which I haven’t been, but people have made it a factor) she/he probably spend a shade more time with their family than ours, because there are more off them/ her parents retired etc.

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lifeinthehills · 09/11/2022 10:29

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:24

those are your circumstances. Actually, if I was counting (which I haven’t been, but people have made it a factor) she/he probably spend a shade more time with their family than ours, because there are more off them/ her parents retired etc.

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Being retired is a huge difference in availability. A shade more doesn't suggest it's hugely uneven. How much would it stink to have to measure everything like that?

In the end, it's up to your son to advocate for a Christmas with you, if that is what he wants. It doesn't seem unreasonable that they would come to you once, but what can you do? In the end, our children grow up and make their own decisions about how they structure their lives. Good on you that you've never pressured them about this issue. I doubt that ever ends very well. It looks like its' one of those disappointments in life to be accepted.

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 10:52

In the end, it's up to your son to advocate for a Christmas with you, if that is what he wants

And he evidently hasn't...

phoenixrosehere · 09/11/2022 10:52

Hadtocomment · 09/11/2022 10:00

"I was only asking is it unreasonable to every so often expect that Xmas Day might be at mine for a change."

But it is at yours. It's just your DIL goes to her parents. Your son comes to yours sometimes and sometimes not. So the only person not at yours every Christmas is one DIL and even she comes over the Christmas break at some point. Let her do what she wants to do. It's a strange over-focus on just one person. I think it is unreasonable that you want her to have to go to yours on Christmas day itself, not other days around even. You know that she wants to be with her immediate family and siblings. It does seem to be control thing on your side, because if you know she'd rather be with her immediate family why would you want her to not go and be with her siblings on that day just so she can go to yours? Why? You say consideration, but what other reason? Enjoy your christmas with the rest of your family and your son also when he goes. Seems to me like you see a lot of family at Christmas without obsessing over one in-law. There are loads of people who are alone at Christmas and others whose family are abroad or have difficult times so this seems very petty stuff to me.

I wonder what her other children think of this. I’d be annoyed if I visited my mum for Christmas and she was dwelling over one person who has never shown up on Christmas Day who is doing the same thing we are doing, spending Christmas Day with own parents but shows up the other days within the Christmas season.

I doubt she has kept this to herself as well as she thinks. Most adult children know their parents’ facial attitudes, expressions, and tones.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:55

phoenixrosehere · 09/11/2022 10:52

I wonder what her other children think of this. I’d be annoyed if I visited my mum for Christmas and she was dwelling over one person who has never shown up on Christmas Day who is doing the same thing we are doing, spending Christmas Day with own parents but shows up the other days within the Christmas season.

I doubt she has kept this to herself as well as she thinks. Most adult children know their parents’ facial attitudes, expressions, and tones.

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you’d be surprised. Even my husband had not picked up on it until I said something recently “but I didn’t think you minded” was his reaction.

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Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:57

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 10:52

In the end, it's up to your son to advocate for a Christmas with you, if that is what he wants

And he evidently hasn't...

I genuinely don’t know. I have not discussed it with him. My feeling is he has, but she has just refused. But I do not know for sure, nor do I intend to raise it.

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threatmatrix · 09/11/2022 11:00

What about thinking that your son would actually like to go with her? I spent years having the most boring christmases ever (30 years) as I didn’t want to upset my parents. I so envied all my friends with their families having a great time. Now I do what ever I want and it’s amazing.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:04

threatmatrix · 09/11/2022 11:00

What about thinking that your son would actually like to go with her? I spent years having the most boring christmases ever (30 years) as I didn’t want to upset my parents. I so envied all my friends with their families having a great time. Now I do what ever I want and it’s amazing.

Yes, he likes to be with her, and does sometimes go there, but he also likes to catch up with his siblings/nieces, and (dare I say it) parents on Xmas Day, so I think is genuinely torn.

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SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:06

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 10:57

I genuinely don’t know. I have not discussed it with him. My feeling is he has, but she has just refused. But I do not know for sure, nor do I intend to raise it.

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This is it really, you've just been making an assumption. You've never really considered the possibility that this might actually work well for him.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:07

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:04

Yes, he likes to be with her, and does sometimes go there, but he also likes to catch up with his siblings/nieces, and (dare I say it) parents on Xmas Day, so I think is genuinely torn.

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at the end of the day Xmas with your in Laws is not most peoples preferred option, but he does it to be with her. Odd comments he has made imply there are issues with some of the traditions they have. But twas ever thus, and I think he gets that growing up is partly about embracing others habits.

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Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:09

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:06

This is it really, you've just been making an assumption. You've never really considered the possibility that this might actually work well for him.

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you said “he evidently hasn’t” I am pointing out that there is no evidence one way or the other. I guess, but I don’t know. It seems you have evidence I am not party to. So perhaps you could share.

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2pinkginsplease · 09/11/2022 11:16

Middleagedspreadisreal · 09/11/2022 10:16

I totally understand where you're coming from, my son and dil always choose her family over us, for xmas day and boxing day, meaning we're alone which I hate. And it hurts. I have expressed my feelings , asked if they'd 'take turns' too, which only made things worse unfortunately.

My sil says that Christmas isn’t Christmas unless she is with her family. Yet bil has to suck it up and not spend the day with his family!

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:27

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:07

at the end of the day Xmas with your in Laws is not most peoples preferred option, but he does it to be with her. Odd comments he has made imply there are issues with some of the traditions they have. But twas ever thus, and I think he gets that growing up is partly about embracing others habits.

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I am sure he does not sit there moping and being miserable because it is not his first choice of venue (or I would be ashamed of him if he did). He is grown up enough to get on with it, and enjoy it for what it is, which I am sure is a lovely family Xmas.

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SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:27

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:09

you said “he evidently hasn’t” I am pointing out that there is no evidence one way or the other. I guess, but I don’t know. It seems you have evidence I am not party to. So perhaps you could share.

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Ah, so now its about there being no evidence one way or another and we can't assume if he hasn't said anything one way or another, but it's been fine for you to surmise that he must want to spend Christmas with both you and DW despite him not actually having said that?

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:30

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:27

Ah, so now its about there being no evidence one way or another and we can't assume if he hasn't said anything one way or another, but it's been fine for you to surmise that he must want to spend Christmas with both you and DW despite him not actually having said that?

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He has said, and acted along those lines. So there is evidence for that. What there is no evidence for (as far as I am aware, but you are the one with evidence it seems) is that he has raised this with her. The reason why there is no evidence for this is because I have not discussed it with him, nor, quite rightly, would he moan about his wife to me, nor would I encourage it.

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iknowimcoming · 09/11/2022 11:31

Fluffygoon · 09/11/2022 09:11

Having read all the posts OP I still think you’re being completely reasonable - if she cared about your feelings and her DH, instead of them being split on Xmas day she could make an effort for just 1 year out of 16.

I’m an only child and my parents made it clear they didn’t expect to see me every year but my DHs youngest sister insisted on having my in-laws for every single Xmas, Easter, Mothers Day, Father’s Day, parent’s birthdays etc for years. None of the siblings ( who live locally) were ever invited or given an opportunity to host - it was all about her and what she wanted so I get your frustration and think your DIls actions are frankly, selfish.

What I learned from all this is your DIL is not going to change her behaviour over Xmas but you can change yours and it can be surprisingly empowering to shift the goalposts slightly and by doing so it may encourage your DS in particular to have a little think.

So, for example, instead of extending the usual invite to DS and DIL you could just make an assumption they’re not coming. Your other kids can come to you on Christmas Day- if DS wants a present he can come round and collect it but you don’t put yourself out by preparing lunch instead, offer a drink/nibbles. See how your feelings shift by not being treated like a doormat and then see what happens next Christmas.

This 100%! I definitely don't think you're unreasonable OP, and if I were the DILs parents I would probably have suggested at some point over the years 'wouldn't your IL's like to see you both one year?' but then I think I'm quite a considerate person, maybe they are a tad selfish as a family generally? Anyway have a good one whatever happens

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:37

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:30

He has said, and acted along those lines. So there is evidence for that. What there is no evidence for (as far as I am aware, but you are the one with evidence it seems) is that he has raised this with her. The reason why there is no evidence for this is because I have not discussed it with him, nor, quite rightly, would he moan about his wife to me, nor would I encourage it.

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Him having said this is new, and wasnt included in earlier posts. Funny how until now it's only been about what you can surmise, how he's acted etc, which by happy coincidence happens to align exactly with your own preferences.

Original poster

maryanne3 · 09/11/2022 11:44

SirMingeALot · 09/11/2022 11:37

Him having said this is new, and wasnt included in earlier posts. Funny how until now it's only been about what you can surmise, how he's acted etc, which by happy coincidence happens to align exactly with your own preferences.

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I do apologise for not including transcripts of all of the conversations over the last 16 years. I think I have made it clear that he has come to us sometimes, that generally I have to encourage him to go to in laws, that he enjoys company with his siblings, that our Xmasses are good when we can arrange them. Your remark referred to a comment that said it was up to him to advocate for a Xmas with us, which can only be a conversation with his wife. You said “evidently he hasn’t” which strongly implies that you are talking from evidence. (Unless you do not full understand what “evidently” means, which not everybody does) I am saying I have no evidence for that conversation. You are saying that you have evidence that it has not taken place. In which case do share.

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toomuchlaundry · 09/11/2022 11:49

@iknowimcoming I would like to think I would be like that when have adult DC.

All the posters on here saying they always have Christmas with their parents and never go to the in-laws, I can't imagine the parents not saying some years why don't you go to in-laws and let DH have a family Christmas with them

Ellyess · 09/11/2022 11:55

I remember the year, one of my daughters was going with DH and DCx4 to her DH's family for Christmas. At tea-time on Christmas Day I had a surprise Face Time, it was said DD and family, all at their own home! Circumstances had changed, and they had decided it best not to make the very long journey. DD's in-laws fully understood.

My reaction was one of relief and pleasure! I was so glad my DD had a day off to relax, she works very hard, as does her DH. The DC x4 were so happy, thrilled they were still in pyjamas! They had meatballs for dinner and the DC loved it.

I just wanted to say this because it brought home to me that I, in my granny role, was so glad my DD was able to have a more restful family-only Christmas, enjoying their family together, doing anything they felt like doing and not trying to look after the wider family.

Hadtocomment · 09/11/2022 11:56

"I think I have made it clear that he has come to us sometimes, that generally I have to encourage him to go to in laws, that he enjoys company with his siblings, that our Xmasses are good when we can arrange them."

You are making him sound incredibly passive. Maybe step back. You don't have to "encourage him to go to the inlaws" etc etc. He's a grown up. I think you make the mistake of trying to make out your DIL is a problem, when she isn't. She's being very straightforward, and she's not stopping your son coming to yours if he wants to do that. Perhaps you need to just ask him to come if you want him to come and not do all this encouraging or whatever. All you can be is straightforward and say it'd be nice to see him but understand if he doesn't this year. Then leave it to him and don't take it personally. The idea of him torn over where to go for christmas day is surely a little overblown, unless there is pressure on him. Which there probably is knowing families. BUt good luck anyway, OP. Your work is very forgiving! I'm sure it'll all work out. I think your DIL sounds pretty nice though so might be worth focusing more on that and less of the one thing that's annoying you.