Is this weird - work related - is it cultural?

[cofingalthetime]

So just to start - I'm Irish.
So I work in a office in a small team. Colleagues has been off for 3 weeks. The first week she was off I asked the team leader was she ok, and she said she it was "personal". So of course I respect people's privacy and didn't want to pry and so I didn't ask anything or mention it again. I was in the office with TL and one other girl yesterday. And I just happened to say to the other girl "I hope X is ok, she has been off for a while" and the girl said did I not know, but X's brother had been murdered! I was so shocked, and upset that I didn't know. I asked her had flowers or a card not been sent -and she said no - that not even our Head knew what happened, that the TL hadn't told anyone, and this girl had heard it from a completely different friend of X's. (X is friends with people outside our dept, she's worked there for years).

I said we should organise at least a card from our team, to let her know we were thinking of her. That we should maybe send flowers... that I'd be happy to chip in if the company didn't want to pay (notoriously stingy).

Team leader came back into the office and we both said it to her and she said 'no no' we are not to organise anything like that. Why not I said? And she just said kept saying 'no no'.

THEN, Team leader said she had been in touch with X and had told her she needs to come back to the office as it's been 3 weeks - X had apparently been doing working from home, and some compassionate leave, and some annual leave. X asked to work from home for the time being (she lives a long way - we are doing 3 days in, 2 days wfh) but team leader said no, she has to come back properly. She even said to X that she will arrange for her to work in this horrible little office we have - that has no windows - and she can work in there on her own if she doesnt want to sit in the office with us???? I was gobsmacked. She said she has told X she needs to get signed off by a doctor or come back asap. Fair enough I know - even though managers are allowed to "use discretion" when it comes to working from home and personal circumstances - this manager likes to follow the rules to the letter. More than that though - why can't we send a card? Is that an "English" thing?? I know in Ireland there's no way nothing would have been done by now. I feel so sorry for X that she has had nothing from her work colleagues at all. I mean, am I wrong or?? Feel so bad. Have bought a card and will send it myself if team leader won't let us send a group one.

if it happened to me, and nobody from work contacted me, and there was nothing from my workplace, I would be upset

But individuals, like you, are free to contact her now that you know.

I don't think anything from the workplace as a whole is appropriate, and as someone Irish too, I can tell you it just doesn't happen here! (In general at least)

The workplace has been in touch appropriately, via your TL.

I think you have the wrong expectations, frankly.

When my DF died (so nothing at all like your friend's tragic loss), almost everyone I knew at work wrote to me, came to the funeral, or sympathised directly. So of course I'd expect contact but from an individual - not the organisation.

Well if her close friend is telling people, maybe that’s exactly what she wants. No big announcement or group email from management; no collections or condolence cards - just people being told quietly by a person she chose.

This will hopefully be the worst thing that ever happens to your colleague and her family. It’s not like the peaceful death of an aged grandparent. Her brother has had his life torn away in the most violent way possible. You don’t know the circumstances - if he was involved in crime of any kind, for example, she might be feeling very conflicted about the whole thing and not want to discuss it with colleagues. Maybe the brother knew his killer (statistically more likely than a random attack) and your colleague did too - that’s a lot to take in. The police might not even have been able to release the body yet; the funeral may still be looming.

You've said in pretty forceful terms that you’re a caring, empathetic person. Have the empathy to understand that what you think is the right way isn’t the only way, and might not be right for your colleague.

No you're wrong. She has talked very openly about her family, her siblings, and her brother was a family man with no connection to crime, I know that for a fact. I don't want to say more, but what you're saying is just not true. We're a close team and sure I'll send my own card and message now that I know. Leave anything else up to the TL. Even though I don't trust her to "do the right thing" going on how she has behaved around births/ marriages/ and all kinds of things.

Just one example - one of the team had a baby, and she texted me from the hospital and sent photos to me etc, and I congratulated her. The next day I said to TL wasn't it lovely news and we should organise some flowers and a card. And the TL said that that was inappropriate due to GDPR she was not allowed to tell anyone about the birth and that I was not to tell anyone either. Well I ignored her and told my friend's friends, and word got round, and everyone wanted to contribute to a gift.. In the end I organised it as TL wouldn't, saying it was not in line with GDPR???? And I was embarrassed saying there was nothing being done for my friend & her baby.

That's a totally different situation. And yes your TL sounds a bit of a nightmare.

The point stands - to your betrayed colleague, individual contacts are fine; a company card / flowers, not so

Really, as someone who has been in a similar (but not the same) position, I wouldn't send the card! She hasn't told you, she doesn't know that you know. Send a nice message, let her know you're available to talk ... but don't do sth that may lead her to think that everyone is discussing it because it looks to me that she doesn't want that!

You do realise that is seriously weird, don't you?

I am English (well, born and raised here) and this wouldn't happen at our place. I think we do work for a really good company, though, and I am often surprised at how crap other companies are and it makes me never want to leave

I hate to say it but lots of people who’ve been stabbed in gang related crimes say their family member was a “family man with no connection to crime” and if often comes out that he was connected to crime somehow…

Nope she hasn’t apologised and I doubt she will.

seems like a classic case of one person thinking she knows everything about her colleagues, what they do/don’t do in their personal lives and has a tendency to ride roughshod over their feelings whetted they like it or not.

meanwhile most of her colleagues are cringing for her inside for being so insensitive and xenophobic towards English people.

Actually, OP, I was shocked at the indifference of my colleagues towards a co-worker whose mother died suddenly. English people are just shit with death.

I’m Irish also and everyone in my work is English & I’ve found the same to be honest. When there’s a bereavement im the one to arrange a card & flowers - no one else seems fussed.

Whereas at home in previous roles I (along with my colleagues) would have even attended the funeral!

Yeah this is how I felt when I went back to work after my grandmother died, I just felt like nobody cared and they weren't really my friends. I felt really let down that nobody said anything. And it was gruelling having people asking me did I have a lovely holiday. I told the first few people what happened but then I just gave up and ignored it like everyone else. It still upsets me. And just that that wasnt the 'norm' in the workplace - we signed cards and sent flowers and went to funerals for other colleagues who had bereavements.

It’s definitely not cultural. Quite a sweeping statement to think the whole of England acts like this. When my Mum died earlier this year, my work sent me flowers and lovely messages showing their sympathy and support.

Er, my mother is English . I call myself Irish as I was born there and raised there and have an Irish father. And no I'm not going to apologise - I do think people on here are uncaring and cold, and same in work. Not every single person. But especially around death. And life events in general tbh. A young guy got married in the summer and nothing was organised for him either before he went off or when he got back from his honeymoon. I've kept my head down on so many occasions.

I'm happy to hear that!!!! Seems from this thread that that is unusual in England workplaces though.

I haven't read the full thread but this posts sums up well I think.

I don't believe it's a cultural issue. But murder is a bit different to other bereavements and there may be additional sensitivities at play here. If she's a friend of yours, then reach out to her personally and say you've heard and express your sympathies/support.

Tl sounds like an arse but they may be coming under a lot of pressure from above. Being signed off sick will formalise the time she needs off.

You don't come across as a gossip to me.

Not an irish/English cultural issue - but the culture at your workplace sounds pretty toxic.

It wasn’t an accusation. I don’t know these people from a bar of soap. It was just speculation - literally one theory - as to why your colleague might not want huge amounts of attention drawn to it.

That's the thing though. She has obviously told her close friend at work, who has been telling people and word has been going around. I have literally not mentioned her name since the first day she was out and was told she was off for personal reasons. Obviously word has been going round, other colleagues have been texting me today asking ME why hasn't a card or flowers or anything been sent. I think they realise the team leader is not going to do anything. And it's not 'pressure from above" as someone else mentioned as the Head of Dept does not even know why she is off. I know that for fact, his secretary told me, and asked me should she tell him - she was waiting for TL to tell him. Personally I think he should be told, but it's up to the TL ?

A card for someone who is getting married is lovely, a sympathies card for someone who hasn't told you about the bereavement and may really NOT want it acknowledged at this point in time is not considerate IMO. I do think that doing this would be more about you doing what you consider to be "the right thing" rather than actually meeting colleague's needs or empathising with their situation.

It sounds like your manager is just very “by the book” and doesn’t really do soft skills. That’s certainly not ideal, and it’s a shame you don’t feel as comfortable as you might at work. But it does seem like you are regularly going against your manager’s guidance and taking it upon yourself to decide you know better. You are not the team leader here.

Maybe he does know and secretary just isn't aware? This all sounds really gossipy now and I'd be super unhappy if I were your colleague and realised that everyone was talking!

Obviously word has been going round, other colleagues have been texting me today asking ME why hasn't a card or flowers or anything been sent. You’ve answered it yourself here by showing it’s not a cultural thing but a TL issue if your colleagues are expecting card/flowers to be sent, unless they’re not English too?

I worked for an English charity for 7 years and thought I had many friends. We live out in the country and my lovely young brother went out for a walk before dinner and never came back. We searched for a fortnight. Eventually he was was found dead and the police didn't know whether he had been set upon and killed by gangs of drunken thugs using the woods to take drugs, or whether he had fallen and died. I was absolutely devastated.
NOT ONE colleague of mine sent a card, flowers, a text - no-one, And they did know, because it made the news. When I went back to work after the funeral, no-one said "Sorry about your little brother". I hated them all for that, and left soon after.