Albanian migrants question

[Notthetoothfairy]

Everyone knows the U.K. is really short of staff since Brexit and that is pushing up prices for food etc. If we now (like it or not) have a huge influx of Albanian young men who actually want to work, wouldn’t we be better off letting them legally get jobs here and treating them like the Europeans who left?

Maybe I’m being too simplistic here but I’m not sure how keeping them unhappily detained for long periods in processing centres then spending something like £7m a day putting them in hotels without letting them work is helping anyone. Obviously it’s different if someone has just come over to claim benefits and has no intention of working but I get the impression that’s not the case for a lot of these young men.

If you think I’m wrong, you can explain why and still be nice about it 😁

@XingMing I don’t think anyone’s called me rational before 😂 Thanks! I hope it’s ok to copy paste something I posted earlier in the thread that I hope goes a little bit of the way to answering the philosophical part of your question.

“In the community, asylum seekers can be supported with English lessons and cultural awareness - especially around safeguarding and sexual behaviour and the consequences of illegal behaviour. Mentor schemes can be set up between settled people of the same nationality/religion to promote community ethos and cultural understanding.
Leaving people in a centre with nothing to do, no job, no hope and surrounded by an increasingly hostile population is not good for anyone.”

This is where the schemes I mentioned in another post are vital. You’ll get some men who have a less western view of women, and some men who are more protective and respectful of women than the average British man would be. Asylum seekers aren’t stupid or evil, but they’re also not mind readers about cultural differences. Education is incredibly important, and small scale studies (they have to be, as there’s no nationwide government program for this!) show success in helping with integration. Likewise, the people who run these programs or who work with asylum seekers are best placed to spot anyone with worrying sexual behaviour/intentions. In my time I’ve only had to report someone once and I’m incredibly glad he was deported (not solely due to my report sadly).

Gosh @Mycatsgoldtooth ,thank you. you made me a bit teary.

Well, asylum seekers can’t vote, and iirc refugees can’t unless they have citizenship.

“Refugee status in itself does not confer the right to vote, no matter how long you’ve been in the UK.
Usually you’ll need to have been granted citizenship to qualify (unless you’re from a qualifying Commonwealth country.)”

Is your post in reference to another group of immigrants? That’s another area where integration is vital - in particular, English lessons for female family members as it’s vital they know their rights. Unfortunately conservative governments have hugely cut the funding for English language lessons for immigrants, which is like “yay we saved money!” But also “no we made people’s lives worse which also impacts on their community!” so <wails and gnashes teeth>

Very true! I’m hopeful that it will be possible though. 🙏

The shortage of unskilled workers is also pushing up wages which have been too low for too long in the UK.

Generally speaking constant inflow of unskilled labour creates an oversupply & leads to degradation of working conditions and wage supression, and contributes to employers unwillingness to train to improve productivity because wages are kept low.

If we are aiming for a fair society for the immigrants granted leave to stay, then learning English to a competent standard for women especially should be a big part of of the implied contract IMO. A town in the Midlands I visit regularly has a large migrant community, and there are hundreds of middle aged women who have been sequestered from the mainstream because they cannot speak English.

@XingMing for some visas, there’s already a requirement to pass an English language test (and pass a “Life in the UK” which I couldn’t pass despite being British!)

But you’re absolutely right that learning and speaking English can be vital for people’s safety, and needs to be combined with outreach/awareness - like people knowing they can report domestic abuse for eg, or forced labour conditions at work. (Multilingual posters at the GPs surgery/hospitals sometime do this for the same reasons).

In schools with higher numbers of EAL students (students needing support with English language) they sometimes also run parents clubs, where parents (usually mums) come in and learn English together with a coffee, and ask qs about school etc. This can also be a safe place to sensitively raise awareness of those issues. They are few and far between though, unfortunately.

That’s good to hear about schools, but won’t high numbers of non-English speaking students slow down the whole class?

@Notthetoothfairy It really depends on the school. It’s much more common that non-English speaking students get left behind to figure it out than the whole class stopping to translate things, but I know what you mean about numbers. I think there’s been a positive change recently in teaching non-English speaking students in a non-disruptive way, as sites like Twinkl have EAL resources teachers can print out, powerpoint & Word have functions that automatically translate slides/texts, or teachers/EAL leads translate class work beforehand, or lead small group lessons where the children learn English together in a small group for part of the day/week. Some schools are lucky enough to have TAs who speak the kids’ language and can provide in-class support. Basically, it really depends on the resources and staff the school has.

Schools in multicultural areas tend to be excellent at this, but I do worry about schools that aren’t used to having non-english speaking students, and if they’re aware of all the above. If you’re worried about your children’s school, it’s worth asking your school about their EAL policy (should be on their website) and asking them to be aware of resources to support EAL students (for everyone’s benefit). Bell Foundation seems to be quite highly recommended for free training and resources.

(The dfe also gives extra funding for unaccompanied asylum seeking children, which can be used to buy in language learning online programs and dictionaries etc so it doesn’t have to come out of the schools regular budget.)

Sorry, I’m exhausted and that was a complete stream of consciousness but I hope it helps a bit!

No not trying to shut discussion down, the opposite trying to get a reference which is clearer - a figure helps.

Xing good luck I’m sure you’ll find something nice, sometimes on mn I feel like the few feels so positively about U.K., wants to stay and will be last here - with all that space ;

I do have another option but hope to not feel I need it as the dc and we are happy here.

I know what you mean. My DB wasn’t born in the UK, as my parents were working overseas at the time. But he’s lived in this country almost all his life. My DSis and I were born here, does this mean we should have more right to live here than he does??

One of my closest friends is Scottish. She happened to be born when her parents were in Australia. Does that give her less right to be here?

It really doesn’t imply mass immigration, one in six not having been British born. Because this is an age where there is a lot of travelling.