Albanian migrants question

[Notthetoothfairy]

Everyone knows the U.K. is really short of staff since Brexit and that is pushing up prices for food etc. If we now (like it or not) have a huge influx of Albanian young men who actually want to work, wouldn’t we be better off letting them legally get jobs here and treating them like the Europeans who left?

Maybe I’m being too simplistic here but I’m not sure how keeping them unhappily detained for long periods in processing centres then spending something like £7m a day putting them in hotels without letting them work is helping anyone. Obviously it’s different if someone has just come over to claim benefits and has no intention of working but I get the impression that’s not the case for a lot of these young men.

If you think I’m wrong, you can explain why and still be nice about it 😁

@BewareTheLibrarians hmmmm, I think you were going for a ‘gotcha’ moment there tbh

i don’t think I denied that 😁

It demonstrates the minimum numbers. The points of which you speak actually point to the numbers being far higher, but not included in this data. Its not clear whether you just don't understand or are incapable of doing so. Your method of engagement by holding back bits of information for some kind of failed gotcha, along with the lazy xenophobia accusations, makes me think it's the later. Anyway, I'll note your user name and stop engaging with you. Kindly do the same.

@lljkk ah yes a tweet from Dan Snow who is extremely rich and privileged as are the people he is quoting in his tweet. What would any of them know about the issues mass immigration causes it's absolutely laughable.

Wirh the best will in the world, I don't see how a smallish crowded island can accommodate everyone who speaks a little English and thinks it would be a nice place to live.

If there’s (only ever!) one thing I’ll always agree with @lollipoprainbow on, it’s that communities that are already in need in many ways are facing unsustainable pressure due to the asylum seekers being channelled through Kent (and sent to other equally struggling areas). I don’t know how the government can justify this.

I‘m saying that as someone who lives in an underserved, struggling community that looks after a high number of asylum seekers! But if I go to my mum’s comfortable, Tory town, it’s like asylum seekers don’t exist. One old area of 50+ houses there was due to be demolished, then it was decided to be repurposed for asylum seekers. Then that plan disappeared, all the properties were renovated and sold at +£450,000 to who knows who, (despite a promise to allocate some as affordable housing - in the end the only 3 terraced houses were converted into 6 1 bed flats and that was it.)

I know most people in my area can’t afford houses that expensive. Neither can most first time buyers. That development didn’t benefit local people, it only benefited people rich enough to afford a nearly half a million pound basic 4 bed house. If that development had been used for asylum seekers, they only would have deprived top earners, not struggling people. That town also has a brand new primary, a new secondary in the next town, both with spaces, and 2 and a half doctors surgerys. No new schools in my city, yet it’s our council that’s asked to stretch itself.

None of this though, is the fault of asylum seekers, who can’t decide where they go and don’t know some areas are struggling. But I understand and the stress and frustration for local people.

Asylum seekers need to be spread more evenly through the country as a first resort, and into the community, not stuck in a hotel room with no job, and nothing to do but hang around on street corners. That’s not safe for them, it’s not what they want, and it can be hard and scary for the communities. I’m lucky that where I am, we have great schemes and a mostly wonderful diverse community that helps people start to integrate and eases community tensions. All that takes effort, and people who care enough to understand that supporting asylum seekers also supports the community.

And I am going to do my bit to balance the numbers, because I am going to take my (private and privately earned) pension overseas. I shall pay for health insurance so as not to be a burden on the country I live in.

Going back to this ‘seven million people in 18 years’

Is there a point where people feel uncomfortable with increasing numbers?

@MarshaBradyo , as far as I am bothered, we hit that point a few years ago. We're old, we've lived in multiple countries and made new lives each time. We shall just take our ball somewhere else.

@MarshaBradyo I have asked and asked but no one can tell me what an optimal amount of immigration is. Apparently 7 million is “not enough, and we are all racist and the country is shit anyway so don’t think they actually want to live here and if they do live here anyway it’s a sort of punishment for having an empire also mass immigration is great”. There is no clarity at all when discussing this issue as it is so taboo. If you ask anyone to clarify anything they disappear off the thread.

@MarshaBradyo I don’t think anyone is comfortable with ever-increasing numbers. On this thread and others, nobody (as far as I’m aware) has demanded open borders or for us to take all asylum seekers. So I’m no sure what the question is in relation to. It’s possible to believe that asylum seekers shouldn’t be thrown back in the sea, but also that open borders are a ridiculous idea.

And it’s worth remembering too that not all visas are permanent. Student visas are a relatively large proportion but are also relatively short term. People who have immigrated to the UK may prefer to retire in their home country, or when they get married/have kids. British people emigrate out of the UK. There’s may be an increase in people coming here while the UK is a more attractive place to work, but in a few years other countries may be more attractive. Already Polish immigrants have spoken positively about returning to Poland as the economy has improved.

Yes and being told we don't take our fair share is particularly irritating

@Mycatsgoldtooth what do you think the optimal number is? Not because I want to criticise it, but because I don’t know how the average person on mumsnet can know enough about immigration, emigration and the economy to give an exact number.

(But isn’t it a lovely way to shut down a discussion? “You can’t give me an exact number, therefore you have no solution and your opinion is irrelevant.”)

@MarshaBradyo You come across as having a very analytical mind, what number do you think is acceptable?

I think we are passed the optimal number. I think over 10% of a country being born abroad has a detrimental effect on social cohesion and puts pressure on services, especially as it is as unplanned as our system. If we had a national conversation about the benefits, costs and provisions for immigration then we could manage things better. But anyone trying to discuss it is called racist and xenophobic. Interesting to see what has happened in the Nordic countries, which were seen as so progressive for their policies. I see the same happening here in the next few years if we do not actually address the issue in a respectful and grown up manner.

@BewareTheLibrarians not trying to shut anyone down… I’m actually trying to find out other peoples opinions. I said earlier I’m having this conversation in good faith.

It's a valid question. we shall be two out. Don't know where we shall end up. But we have worked and earned and saved for 45 years to have options.

@Mycatsgoldtooth i agree that if people are called racist and xenophobic it can shut the conversation down. Equally, anyone who doesn’t say immigration is terrible/too much is told they’re destroying the country, they want to let everyone in, they want open borders, they can’t even give a solution etc… it’s honestly tiring. There needs to be calm conversation on both sides.

(with the caveat that anyone promoting racist and xenophobic attitudes needs to be shut down, and anyone who says we should have open borders and must take everyone needs to be called an idiot.)

Ive responded nicely to posters here (not all posters, obviously) who have the opposite opinion to try and further the discussion and dig down into their worries in the hope of helping them be less worried about some things, but they just ignore me. What can I do about that? They don’t want to hear it.

@XingMing I hope you end up somewhere with more sunshine at least! :)

Sunshine will be considered as part of the equation, along with a language related to Latin, some history, and nice walking. Decent food and wine also matter. Atlantic Spain is currently appealing. It will be (a bit) less wet than our UK home, if not a lot.

@BewareTheLibrarians i think we are both trying to discuss the situation in a way that gets to the bones of it. But yes, it’s polarising and difficult to talk about.

I do actually love where we currently live, and would stay, but DH doesn't. I think we need to see what else there is out there so he can feel we've investigated.

I've been on this thread for a while and you are are both being very rational. I've weighed in with my personal perspective and derailed.

But this is an important question, both practically (how many people can the UUK accommodate?) and philosophically: should they share a similar religious/ethical framework?? how do the immigants arriving regard women's social standing and position?

Personally, I really do not want to live in an emigre version of the country I ws born in.

And honestly, casting political correctness to the winds. I want to live in a modern democracy.

I'm not bothered by the colour of your skin or your religious beliefs but I do want everyone to know that one person has one vote, and that it must be voted individually.

@XingMing 💐