Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

It sounds like they are understaffed. In previous jobs I have seen children sent home for the smallest thing if they are a child that is more challenging or they know mum is home. I don’t agree with it all.

My DS's nursery is not like this. I can count on 1 hand the number of time we have been called to come collect him in 2 years and its only been when he spiked a very high temperature.

It definitely sounds like that they have a staffing issue and are finding excuses as if they didn't have enough staff for the room they would have to reimburse the parent for illnesses etc they don't.

Personally if you can move setting then do just double check your notice period in the contract so that you don't end up paying for 2 settings!

Why on earth doesn't your nursery help with these things? That's horrific to leave a child soiled!

@Skinnermarink : is your nursery one of Bright Horizons' by any chance?

Yes, I had this years ago.

When staff phone in sick or go home sick I was almost certain that they look round whichever room is affected (the baby room, the toddler room, the pre-school room etc) and decide who is the least perky today.
That parent(s) then get a call to collect their child and bingo, the staff to child ratios are magically brought down to guideline limits.

I did have this theory unofficially confirmed by an ex-staff member.

I was an easy target as I worked almost door to the nursery so it wasn't far for me to go, whereas some parents worked much further away and would take almost an hour to get there to pick up their child.

It isn’t, it’s actually fully independent and not part of a chain.

The thing is when a child is poorly in nursery, depending on the illness it can take a member of staff away to keep an on them. It can be a very difficult call for nurseries to make, if we know parents work we would try and perservere or ring them to ask what they wanted to do. Another thing with D and V is it not only can spread amongst the children but staff, again causing staffing issues plus nursery staff rarely get sick pay. However, if you think they are taking the mick because of their staffing issues, then definitely speak to them. Normally if they are short staffed they will ask non working parents to keep their children off.

Sounds like they are understaffed and are repeatedly pulling a fast one to stay within their staff ratios. The fact you turned up and there wasn't enough staff and they hoped to send you away tells you this is what they're up to. I wouldn't be happy having to collect my child for the things you've listed.

Email a list of dates where you feel you have been contacted in error and request confirmation of their staffing levels.

They should join the dots quickly.

They are committing fraud IMO send perfectly well children home because THEY don't have the correct safe number of staff, yet still being paid.

They need reporting.
Hopefully you have a record via your phone.

This must be so stressful.

It needs reporting as parents need to know they do this before they place their children their.

Yes I had this too with DS. He was everlasting being sent home when the baby room was packed, but was generally a very healthy chap on days when it was quieter. We moved him to another nursery and oddly his 'health' magically improved. Go figure.

Never had that problem in our nursery fortunately. Although my DC definitely had her share of picking up every bug going when she first started.

Also, although I'm sure it doesn't feel like it, £1100 is v.cheap for 4 days a week for a baby. It sounds like they may need to look at their cost base a bit more closely to understand their income and outgoings so they can afford the appropriate number of staff. TBH, I'd start looking elsewhere.

Yes along with fabricated menus that sound lovely but end up being cheap crap thrown together. Making up total bollocks for the daily diary! Infact a couple of nursery staff I knew were so keen to get their key childrens’ day reports over and done with they had written about 3 weeks in advance. Obviously their ability to read the future told them how many dirty nappies ans how much sleep they’d be having over the next few weeks! Then there’s the staff that really just want to chat to each other and can’t be arsed. Or still hungover having got in from a club at 4 am . You do get some lovely staff but my experience is they are few and far between. Many staff are over worked, underpaid and there’s not always the best relationships between staff. Lots of younger staff just don’t realise how much hard work it is going to be and they get thrown in at the deep end. This experience is across a franchise .

As a nursery nurse, it's a tough one.
I've heard of parents yelling at staff as they have been told to come and collect their kid who has severe diarrhoea and of course in that case and in a lot of others, the other children and staff do need to be protected.
With that said, your cases do seem extreme.
I also think it may be something to do with child ratios and the nursery not wanting to pay agency which is really wrong as if you need the extra staff then you need the extra staff. It's that simple.

I think the nursery are being complete job worth's! I would start asking for evidence and also look at their policies and procedures on a child bring sick. I would look for evidence of loose bowel movements in nappies (ask them to keep the nappies). Also what's the policy on soiled nappies ?? Is it just one soiled nappy ??. If they complain your child has a high temp. When you get there to collect him take his temp. Does the manager/senior agree when a child needs sending home??
Honestly they sound like complete job worth's!!

Yes along with fabricated menus that sound lovely but end up being cheap crap thrown together.

My nursery does this. I think the food is fine but it sounds gourmet in the diary. The staff at the door are honest. “cheddar and zucchini muffins” = breakfast muffin with cream cheese.

@LakieLady That's actually illegal if she's the only qualified one in the room. There has to be 1 level 3 and half of the other staff need to be level 2. In each room.
The nursery are breaching the rules big time.

When one of mine was in nursery they were very very rarely sent home.

The whole point is that the nursery is taking the place of the parents while the parents work and should be dealing with everything that isn't going to be severely contagious or the child really is too unwell to be in a nursery setting. Everything else they are meant to be dealing with themselves, possibly after a phone discussion with you in some cases.

We didn't have a staffing and funding crisis then like we do now though.

I voted YANBU.

Yes. 100% happened to us. DD was enrolled in private nursery for 11 months, never did a full week. Massively stressful, GP would roll their eyes. Total waste of money. Moved her to a school based nursery and she's been sent home once in 4 months, and for a genuine reason too.

We only send home from my nursery children with vomiting, 2 bouts of diarrhoea or a temperature over 38 degrees.
Or a massive head bump- such as falling from height or similar.
We understand that parents need to work. It does sound like your nursery are over numbers and taking the piss.

They are taking the piss. PLEASE call them out on this. Book a meeting with the manager and explain that you are concerned that they don’t have enough staff so are sending children home under false pretences. They will deny it but at least they will know you are now aware of this and they will then have to stops doing this with you at least. It’s criminal when it’s costing so much money and not fair on your or your child.

Do they always ring you or do they ring your DH too? We didn’t have this with nursery but at school (DD has SEND and they were always looking for excuses to send her home). I found if I said I was in a meeting or a quite a way a way so could they ring DH, they rarely did. Obviously felt it was alright to take the piss with me but not him. Your situation does sound very suspicious and your gut feeling is probably right. I’d be looking at alternative provision.

Yeah, that's not normal. I mean, DD was off a fair bit in her first six months of nursery with various bugs, which is normal but nothing like this and I know they always had the staff for the kids who were allowed to be in on a given day, regardless of illness

Sympathy to you - it sounds a nightmare. I was totally expecting this when my child was at nursery as I’d read so much about it. Fortunately for us the nursery was sensible, including calling to get permission to give Calpol in the case of temperatures, not asking for a pick up. In 3 years we never came to pick up and only kept them off once. I don’t know if we were lucky or you have been unlucky. We were fortunate in having a healthy baby and a nursery team who didn’t over react.

That sounds crazy-sympathy to you! It makes me so thankful that my parents did our childcare and had them through colds, temperatures, sickness, chickenpox and hand, foot+mouth! I hope you find the next nursery better.

Doesn't sound normal to me. Can you move him elsewhere? If not then a sit down with the manager to go over the examples in your OP and for her to share any other policies they may dream up.