Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

I changed my sons nursery for the same thing. They once tried to send him home with a runny nose. He has been running around outside on a cold day, of course his nose was running. I am certain it was to do with staffing levels.

And yes it sounds like they're in a fix with staffing and sending kids home so they stick to the ratios.

My son has been at nursery 2 years and I've had one call to pick him up, he goes 3 days a week. I've had a couple of calls re head injuries and one when I was on my way to pick him up as usual asking me permission to give Capol. That's it! Although that says I have kept him off myself a fair few days.

I've experienced this, but from school not nursery. Now I don't answer the phone, and they can leave a message if it's an emergency. I will ring back if necessary.

I sympathise. I think the only thing I'd do as well is speak to work about their flexibility for you to change your working days to accommodate a change of childcare provider. Hopefully they can be flexible if it means you can both be more reliable x

That's astonishing. Mine are 11 and 14 now, but I was only called to get them from nursery once each. Once when ds threw up and once when dd had scarlet fever. They also didn't charge for bank hols and just took the value of the Earjy Years funding off the bill, rather than charging £20 for lunch.🤦

In the mean time I'd flag with nursery that your job is now on the line and they will need to call DH instead. And then let it go to answer phone and decide from the voicemail how urgent it is and whether DH is stuck in a long meeting.

Mine once sent my DD home because "she said she'd been sick". They couldn't find any evidence of sick anywhere but thought they might be able to smell something so they banned her for 48 hours. There was nothing wrong with her. So glad mine are at school now.

Do check the childminders sickness/ illness policy.....I'm a childminder and mine us quite flexible. I will give children calpol to get them through the day,providing they're not too ill to take part in our everyday activities- if it's just a cold or snotty nose then it's not a problem. It's 48 hours for sickness or/and diarrhoea ( think that's government guidelines, but childminder could set their own), and I never send home for 'soft nappies'! Blimey, one of my babies always has them- he'd never be here! Don't forget though that childminders can be ill and have to close, but it doesn't sound like it could be any worse than the nursery you're using!

I'd be curious to know how many children they are having pay for full time childcare compared with the number of staff - it sounds like they have too many children for the ratio, so are likely rotating round who to send home "sick". If you think this is what they are doing, can you report them to ofsted?

It could be a short term situation if someone has left whilst they recruit, in which case they should be using an agency because this isn't your problem. If it's a long term thing where they are just trying to bring in more money to cover the bills, that cannot continue. They need to only take on children they have space for and charge fees to cover.

If you genuinely think they’re fabricating illnesses to send your child home for staffing reasons then I’d remove him as soon as is reasonably possible.

From the other side, this is just not likely. Not because they’re not understaffed - they will be. But because (in my experience) most nursery managers/owners would far, far rather inconvenience staff than inconvenience parents. They’re more likely to pull staff from older rooms, leaving them wildly out of ratio, than send a child home with a made up illness. One child over ratio is nothing in most nurseries I’ve worked in.

Tell them that you and other parents suspect they are sending children home for spurious reasons because of staffing ratios. They will panic and maybe stop being so shit.

They may also sling you out, but if you've got a replacement lined up then why not!

I had a bit of this at one point with my sons nursery. They would phone up and they they did his temperature after he woke up and it was a bit high so he needs a covid test, this happened about 4 times in 5 weeks and every time he was negative. This was after covid started to become less of a concern. And my thoughts were always "doesn't everyone wake up from a nap a bit hot!?"

The other day I was told my son fell of his chair and banged his head slightly but he was fine and it was just a courtesy call. Then they phoned me back saying he was really lethargic and I need to collect him right now. So I turned up and he was running around having the time of his life, I missed a work meeting and had a stroppy manger because of that.

OP I can really appreciate your frustration here, I don't know what to suggest on afraid ☹️

If that’s the case, would the nursery you work in send children home for the reasons I’ve described?

They don’t seem worried about inconveniencing us as working parents in the slightest.

I’ve worked in this sector of care and I can say of the many nurseries I have spent time in there are definitely children who the staff will happily pass back to their parents first sign of a sneeze. It’s often high maintenance, disruptive little ones or the fact they are not to ratio. Definitely worse now than it used to be and the threshold for calling parents is low. Having said above I’ve had my child’s school reception phone infront of my child to say “ he’s got a bit of a headache do you want to pick him up?” I was furious for asking he question in this way and for not just trying to get him through the day with some water and calpol. Having said that there’s lots of mums who don’t work who are probably available to collect at the smallest symptom which doesn’t help the others who are working

For loose nappies - yes, always. An unexplained rash - possibly, depends on other factors. A high temperature - yes. A bad head bump - depends on the child, the situation etc. These are things that a child would be sent home over. It’s unfortunate and annoying and of course inconvenient to a parent. But it’s also not nursery workers’ job to be caring for children with illnesses. And the responsibility that comes with a possibly serious head injury is just way over the stress level that you can be bothered with for NMW. Let the manager and the parent decide how bad the injury is.

I’ve worked in nurseries for many years, now a childminder.
I wouldn’t say illnesses are fabricated but I’ve known symptoms to be super hyped up when it’s likely just to have been a bit of teething.
You could always make a complaint to ofsted if you are concerned about ratios. Ratios keep children (and staff) safe, an accident could happen and they would be up shit creek.

This is what worries me- he’s only 14 months but he’s a live wire for sure- he’s either asleep or tearing around, he’s already confident enough on his feet to just zoom about. He is never still and there’s no in between. That said he’s happy and cuddly and it’s rare for him to be grumpy or crying. Maybe they just don’t want him there because they think he’s high maintenance?!

It’s possible

See I think the loose nappy thing is mad. Diarrhoea yes but a soft nappy from eating lots of fruit at lunchtime for example?! There are surely babies (as said up thread) who would never be in.

My nursery rang to say my little boy “wasn’t himself” and had been sat on his own in the corner for a while which wasn’t like him. They said I didn’t have to come and get him but they wanted to run it by me.

I was wfh and collected him, he stayed home with me and was no trouble. I couldn’t always do that but would also prefer them home if they’re a little off.

I liked their approach.

Obviously it’s a judgement call. Most baby nappies are a bit soft. But they’ll know the difference between his regular nappies and a loose one. And that’s the policy at almost every nursery in the UK - they won’t keep children who are having loose nappies, and will usually ask them to stay away for 48 hours after the end of the last one.

This sounds awful. I’ve had three children in nursery for 5 years and counting, and I could count on one hand the number of times they’ve called me to collect, on those occasions my children were genuinely unwell with a temp when I got them and it was completely justified. It does sound like they’re struggling with ratios.

Mine's been at nursery for 3 years, 3 days a week, and we have been called to collect him twice.

It's too much of a coincidence that they had exactly 3 staff and 9 children when you arrived for me to be comfortable with. My nursery takes 7 babies daily with 3 staff so they have flexibility for extra days.

Nurseries really differ in my experience. There are two in my suburb, DD goes to one and my friend's DD another.

My friend gets calls to take her DD home when she has the slightest cough or temperature. It drives her bonkers as it obviously interferes with her work. They're not allowed to give them Calpol before taking them in in the morning either.

My nursery never send DD home. If she's under the weather they'll give her extra cuddles and look after her. If she has a temperature they'll ring me and ask if they can give her meds. They're happy for me to give her Calpol and take her in. I've never had a call to pick her up in three years.