Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

@NameWithChange thanks for that, I’ve contacted the BBC as they want to hear from parents facing these issues.

Childminding is the lowest level of care? And you call me thick?

Your nasty, suspicious mindset toward a whole sector of childminders and nannies is frankly ignorant and stupid which reflects much more on yourself than them.

It depends on the child providers costs.

They will vary around the country due to things like the cost of rent of a building, heating etc.

It also depends on who the child provider gets subsidiaries from.

My 4 year old goes to 2 settings who charge different amounts. This is because one gets subsidaries from government, local council and charity donations as they are part of a charity, while the other is mostly paid for by parents.

Yes of course, I’d expect the variation but broadly it seems to be £6-£12 per hour £12 in London nurseries.

£6 per hour is below the NMW so only apprentices can be paid that.

No I’m talking about what nurseries/providers charge per hour.

Not sure how much apprentices make? But plenty saying oh here that nursery workers earn minimum wage or just over.

The question about what childcare should cost (however that cost is split between customers vs state) seems to presuppose that nurseries should be run as private businesses, rather than by the public sector.

I don't see that this assumption holds very well. Local authority pre-school provision (particularly maintained nursery schools) often provide better quality education and care, and often pay a more appropriate salary to appropriately-qualified staff.

Earlier discussion on this thread re: some nurseries deliberately sifting out 'difficult'/SEN children, and not wanting to get a reputation for being 'good with SEN', really saddened me - and did not reflect my experiences. The nurseries my children attended (one MNS, one children's centre) were good with SEN, had the staffing (numbers and qualifications) to cope well with this, and my children benefited from that rather than losing out to it.

We can discuss the right salaries for early years staff, we can discuss the overheads of the physical setting, we can discuss what it's fair to charge a parent and what government subsidy at the point of use would be fair. These are different and interrelated questions. I would struggle to put a fair price on my children's (excellent) state schooling, or on my births or the medical care we've had over the years. I don't really see why childcare is so different.

Im obviously speculating, but given that HMG does indirectly subsidise childcare in many ways (UC, TFC, 15/30hrs), I don't know that moving to a public sector model would even necessarily cost the taxpayer very much more...

This comment about childminders is disgusting. You must have had experience of a terrible childminder. Yes there are some. In the same way there are terrible nurseries. Just because nurseries have more than one staff member, doesn't mean your children are safer. Think of the Little Ted's nursery case where that staff member was sexually abusing the children despite there being lots of other staff around.

I know many excellent childminders who are actually more qualified than most nursery workers and far more experienced in dealing with children. To say all childminders are the lowest form of childcare is very very offensive.

I agree with @Ilovemycatalot .
Although I am one of those agency workers called in to help and am qualified so we arent all unqualifieds who have no idea what we are doing...
However, agree with the point that nurseries are horrificly understaffed right now and I do believe also that childminders and nannies are the better option.
I spend my shifts running between all the different rooms as they don't have qualified staff in to keep to their legal requirements. It is utterly insane.

That’s so frightening.

It is and sadly the reality right now for many nurseries.
They are relying on qualified agency staff to stay open and to meet all their legal requirements.
In a nursery you can have 10 unqualified staff in a room but it wouldn't help as you need at least 1 level 3 and half to be level 2. If that isn't happening then the rooms are not operating legally. Nurseries cannot retain or recruit permanent qualified staff so this is where it's all at right now.
Until pay and conditions for workers change I don't see this changing anytime soon.

Christ, the poster that said childminders are the lowest level of care is horrendously offensive. I'm a childminder and I can 100% guarantee that myself and my pal and the handfull of childminders I know provide the highest level of care for the children we look after. Probably more so than a nursery. We provide so many opportunities that nurseries cannot as well as knowing your children so so well with a much more 1-1 arrangement than a busy nursery. Same adult for child to grow attached to and we have a great time. We can also build relationships with parents and go above and beyond for the families. An example of this being when one of my little ones lost her daddy I was able to offer a sleepover while mummy got herself composed and the child was able to be in a place they already felt comfortable

It was really low slagging off childminders and nannies, I can only think that poster either knows nothing about either or had a terrible experience!

Agree it won’t change until pay and conditions improve MASSIVELY. I left to work retail - I earn more per hour than I did working in a baby unit, and my job is so, so, so easy. I enjoy it. A few minutes before my home time I start shutting down, then on the dot I leave. The minute I’ve stepped out the door I completely forget about work till next shift. They’re utterly flexible with shifts etc so I can work round family life and studying. And when hours are low I can still take some childcare agency work (which pays slightly better than permanent).

And when I told my manager at the nursery I was leaving to work retail she looked at me blankly and said ‘but why? We all love you here! The kids love you.’ Erm, yes, but it’s hard work for no money and crap hours. It’s embarrassing to say that to the manager or owner but it’s true.