Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

Is there any other mums local having the same issues that you could consider having a nanny to look after them together? Shares the expense and hopefully works out better for you.

DS has been at nursery since 14 months, at two different settings - one in London, one in our new home town.

I lived in dread of this situation as I’d heard it was common - but it’s never happened to us. Not once in 2.5 years. He’s picked up all kinds of bugs at nursery, of course, including Covid twice. He always brings them home and we catch them (usually worse), but he’s never been sent home ill.

Agree with @Kanaloa .
I've been doing some agency work in a nursery room of 2 year olds and at least 2 have SEN. Now imagine there are 3 staff in this situation. One will be doing nappies, another trying to get kids to sleep so that leaves one to deal with these SEN kids AND the rest of the children. It is exhausting especially if you are agency and the kids are unfamiliar with you. It's an incredibly hard job.

As an adult, I'm not prone to febrile convulsions, but I probably would take one done if I had a raging fever or serious muscle strain.
Otherwise, best to keep paracetamol for very rare occasions. Some parents use far too much and it's often for the parent's benefit rather than rhe child's. Paracetamol takes a lot of processing for the liver, so better used sparingly.
I am old enough to have been advised to use 'Medised' on my children when they were little and had colds. Google it!😫

When you’ve been stung multiple times by parents bringing their sick children in, infecting yours and then we the parents get it, it’s harder to not feel a conscience taking them in dosed up with calpol.

Or when a sick child brought in means your now sick CM has to close to everyone (not to mention she’ll lose all her income from all children on her sick days). Parents bringing children in that have been vomiting or loose stools are just plain selfish to everyone else.

Childcarers aren’t meant to be caring for ill children, so when mine have a temp or a cold bad enough that they just want to rest and cuddle, I keep them home.

Medised is just antihistamine and paracetamol unless it’s changed?

On what basis do you think paracetamol is overused?

Medised was used to sedate small children who were struggling to sleep when unwell. It was recommended routinely by GPs for night time cough and breathing difficulties.
Because of the risks of suppressing reflexes, it was proposed it would be banned, but i see it is still available 'for children over 6'.
It was widely abused to quieten children for adults' peace.
Medication shouldn't be for the convenience of adults imho; most of the time a warm drink and a cuddle work just as well.

Currently in UK, we have a situation where both parents are supposed to work full time. Kids' needs to have family support when they are poorly just don't enter into the financial picture. Not knocking working mums, it's just sad that kids aren't as important in society as employers.

I appreciate it's a tough job & dont see why you should have to take home paperwork.
Telling me verbally how my child's day at nursery went at pickup is enough for me.
I'd much rather nursery staff can focus on the kids during work time then rest, relax and refuel properly outside of work, without having to do paperwork. Shame you can't get away with minimal write ups at the end of each term/quarter with a photo dump then.
Sorry for going off on a tangent

@SpongebobHotpants I think it varies a lot between settings.
You’d know if your key worker is doing this because you would have to sign a confidentiality waiver giving permission for paperwork to be taken off the premises.

Our manager pretended to parents that we were paid for this. It wasn’t quite a complete lie because we were paid one hour of the minimum wage per month. Not per 8 -12 key children, just the one hour.

The childminder was a no go :( unfortunately due to the location and the probability of trains not always being reliable we just can’t commit to the pick up time she offers. So back to the drawing board for now.

Meanwhile the correct nursery has finally given up trying to recruit anyone qualified and have just advertised, no experience needed and you need to be 17 or above 🤯

*current nursery

We often didn’t get our wages without a fight. Sometimes we got part of it but not all. Sometimes nothing.
Here are some of the reasons given:

I forgot it was the end of the month. (No apology)
I miscalculated, anyone can make a mistake (No apology)
The wages were miscalculated. (No apology)
I paid everyone else, I just omitted to pay Shirley. (No apology, Shirley’s mortgage payment bounced)
I’ll pay you when I get round to it.
You know the more you ask me, the more I won’t do the wages.

I’m going on holiday for a fortnight, I’ll do the wages when I get back (No apology as usual)

Another reason why people leave childcare.

Not uncommon in nurseries at all- it’s something paying parents may not see but often students are used in the ratios, despite the fact that they shouldn’t be. They won’t get paid much and they will be expected to work 10 hours a day. So glad I’m no longer in nurseries.
It’s why there is always such a high turnover of staff.

Before I was qualified, I was left with another unqualified person for whole sessions.
I thought if I did a level 3 I would be paid more than the minimum wage - nope.

I've commented on this already, and mentioned contacting Ofsted, etc, etc. However, coincidentally just listened to this episode of Women's Hour on BBC Sounds. It highlights the poor state of early years childcare in the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ddw9?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Highly recommend anyone taking a listen and also contact your local MP about the problem as the government need to be held to account for the dire situation.

Thank you @MissBelle83

WOW. Def do like the other MNs suggest and complain to Ofsted in the mean time to come inspect.
Surprised the manager isnt stepping in and filling in the voids if she's not already.
At our last nursery, the manager would come and cover any absence be it in the baby room or the kitchen doing the hot lunches and purees, she was on the case. Was a pricey 1600 a month per child place, so maybe more pressure to please

@mg2397 I like that. This is how nurseries should be run. Kudos to your nursery. 😀

With the situation now, there’s actually no point getting your qualifications. You earn the same as unqualified childcare workers and less than supermarket shelf stackers. Not that I’m saying anything against retail workers (that’s what I do now, just a bit of agency childcare and retail work as my main job). But what’s the motivation for people to waste time doing coursework and reading boring stuff to benefit themselves in no way whatsoever?

@CarolR82 how many children do you think a Nanny can look after ? Mine had my three older kids, one in senior school, 2 in junior school, before school then the baby all day and then three older kids for two hours in the afternoon and left me because it was too much 🤣

Unfortunately it's very common that nurseries are recruiting unqualified kids. It's cheaper and there is also a shortage of older qualified and experienced staff.

A very expensive Montessori nursery local to me was recently graded inadequate by Ofsted because the staff were mostly unqualified and had no experience of child development. Parents are paying a premium for these kinds of nurseries thinking their children are in some sort of childcare heaven and the running of them is shocking.

Although unqualified staff can count in ratio, you still need at least 1 level 3 and at least half level 2 (in each room) so if a nursery is not doing this then they are breaching the rules.
Unqualified members of staff are cheaper and as I said, count in the ratios but legally, you need qualified staff members.

I think there should be mass protests at the state of child care in this country. The fees are ridiculously high, and if, as has been reported here, children are constantly being sent home for trivial reasons it is an absolute disgrace. How are parents supposed to cope when everything seems to be so dysfunctional? No wonder so many people are experiencing mental health issues.

Pregnant then screwed organised a protest last week.

What would you like to change though? Lower fees will result in even lower wages and they are already pretty awful. The government funded hours are a joke as they don't cover the cost of a child being at nursery but can't see that changing.
I suspect that is why too many children are on the books at times. No other way for the nursery to survive but then if all the children are in someone has to go home. Or one member of staff being ill can result in the same problem.
It isn't great for parents at all. They end up being screwed over but unless the government steps up and helps nothing will change.