Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

The fees are not ridiculously high and it’s misleading to say that £9/£10 per hour is ridiculously high for the care of your child. You cannot expect nurseries to run on less.

Stop with this misleading trope of high childcare fees.

Perhaps what you mean is, there is not enough government support or subsidy.

No, there is definitely NOT enough support and subsidy from the government to help nurseries stay afloat and run a better service.

I can assure you though that along with everything else, £1100 a month for 4x days a week of childcare is a huge chunk of our income.

@Skinnermarink Nurseries were already on their knees.

Can you imagine the impact of the cost of living crisis? Increased food and heating bills?

Their staff were never given any priority throughout lockdown. No jabs prioritised with other key workers, no one clapping for them when they kept going with not so much as a word of praise from the government. Schools shut but nurseries expected to stay open. No one actually knowing what they are supposed to do as any 'official' word was scant.

All stock of PPI/nappies/essentials very hard to get hold of and extra expensive.

Staff morale was and is a constant problem because of pressure and long hours involved with no extra hands or staff available to help.

Parents like you stamp on what resolve there is left in these poor staff members.

Can you think of anything positive your nursery has done for you?

Do your nursery a favour and leave please.

@Skinnermarink

I am not saying that justifies anyone lying or being deceitful about a situation around your child; of course not.

But if you have a legitimate concern, do something about it for it to investigated and possibly validated. Otherwise, stop slagging off exhausted, low paid individuals who have probably treated your child as well as one of their own through extremely difficult times.

How the fuck am I stamping on it!?!

i said in my opening post I sympathise.

I also worked throughout the pandemic, not able to work from home. No one clapped for me either, not that I’d have wanted them to.

All the rising costs that nurseries face- we are bloody well facing them too. Don’t be so short sighted.

Also, my child is ONE. He didn’t exist through the pandemic. So they certainly didn’t have to care for him ‘as if he was one of their own’ throughout lockdowns…

The staff and your nursery existed through lockdown though didn't they?

Look online at how many nurseries have been forced to close. Family run businesses where wonderful people have worked many unpaid hours/weeks/months dedicating their lives to their businesses and absolutely broken when forced to close.

If they have been dishonest that is wrong but 🤷🏻‍♀️ - get it investigated properly - at least mention it to management in writing before coming on here and drumming up negativity towards a sector that has been at breaking point for years now.

Yes, it’s wrong they’ve been under so much pressure.

It is NOT the fault of hardworking parents.

@Skinnermarink

'It is NOT the fault of hardworking parents.'

Agreed. A lot of Nursery staff are hardworking parents too!!

Whoever’s fault it is OP has expectations of the nursery, ie to work within the constraints of law and look after her child when they are well, it cannot be OP’s job to risk her livelihood out of empathy.

Of course.

But she needs to direct her concerns to Senior Management for addressing - or higher if that is not adequate.

The government need to fund childcare properly for childcare providers to manage properly. The funded hours parents get doesn't even cover the hourly rates of a lot of childminders/nurseries so they are losing money on every single funded child unless they charge additional fees such as ridiculously expensive food costs or providing nappies etc. And it isn't always about childcare providers charging too much. Depending on where you live some childminders charge as little as £3.50 an hour. Unless the government put more money into childcare the situation is only going to get worse.

Of course it’s a huge chunk, we all do it and sacrifice for a few years. £1100 broken down into hours is not stupidly expensive is it when you factor everything in.

But broken down into an hourly rate it’s not unreasonable so the issue isn’t the cost it’s the lack of help.

People mentioning childminders for £3.50 - people doing it for that price are either undertaking a hobby or are living in rural areas.

This is also very true - the nursery in question needs to be complained about. There’s no way you can rely on them and I can only imagine the stress it’s caused.

We're in Wales complaint are taken seriously here. My friend has a small nursery 18 kids she won't entertain government intervention because the money takes so much time to come through. It was the same with our dental care 120 days in arrears so they went private

I have 2 in nursery at the moment in different rooms and 1 with health issues and they have never been sent home. If they are suddenly a bit unwell they will give them some Calpol and if they are very unwell we don't send them in. But they have never called us to collect

Average worker receives £10 pH. Level 3 up £12 pH. Registration costs, food, electric and gas, office equipment Inc paper ink, toys, rental costs, council tax, national insurance, liability insurance, tax. Kitchen equipment, cutlery and much more , these high costs have closed so many childcare settings. Running a nursery or childcare setting is not a get rich job.
Then we face constant training that constantly up dates, DBS recruitment, ofsted fees. We also limited to ratio. If a staff member sick, we are looking at £30 p/h to hire bank staff.
We are not allowed to give calpol unless emergency, we have to follow the rules inc child illnesses. If a staff member falls ill, we pay sick pay. Diarrhoea is 48 hours inc staff and children, it is the law. We are restricted hence why we have no choice but to call parents. Parents pay a hourly rate less than minimum wage. No wonder so many childcare settings are closing, funding is so low, we barely can cope. One day, it will be too late. One day, parents will not have this opportunity to go to work if these valuable childcare places all close.

I have two and my nursery doesn’t give calpol. If they did it would solve so many issues.

I wonder why some do and some don’t give calpol?

I didn't see anything about the pregnant then screwed protest. Perhaps it didn't receive as much coverage as it should. I think if many more mums and dads joined these sorts of protests and maintained the pressure, and spokespeople were put forward for interview on news channels, there might be much more supportint from the general public for radical changes to be made. I hope parents keep up the pressure.

I have seen that in other developed countries there is much more support for families and we seem so backward here. If children, despite the best efforts of their parents, cannot be placed in affordable, safe and stimulating child care environments that does not bode well for the future. It should be one of the main priorities of a government, in my view.

I pay over £1500 a month for a full time place. I am starting to see the effects of higher costs and staff turnover - its the management style and conduct that is changing, not the care given by the nursery workers themselves. Its got to the point that I am not going to tell them that DD is having her flu spray next week because I KNOW there will suddenly be a rule pulled out of nowhere to say they cant accept her for 24 hours IN CASE she gets sick and it saves them a ratio.

In all the nurseries I have been in, even level 3's don't get above £10.50 per hour. I stand by the fact that nursery managers are not raking it in either. Nursery directors possibly but I don't know any nursery manager who is on a massive wage and where they are not concerned about how they are going to manage costs.

Never met a level 3 NOT on the minimum wage.

If you are a nursery owner of a very small outfit you are not likely to rake it in, but multiply that by 10 and you’ll start to get returns on investment. Buy another ten with an investment group. Sling in a bunch of apprentices at low cost at the highest ratio possible and minimum possible number of qualified staff. Oh and once the apprentices do qualify don’t give them a job just take on loads more cheap labour. Buy more nurseries . Make cheap food. Run breakfast clubs and after school clubs , holiday clubs . Pretend to do amazing activities to bump up the prices. Automatic lighting, cheap heating. Smoke, mirrors, wave bye to the parents, smile and be polite. No benefits for staff. Take home massive pay check. Bobs your uncle.

I half agree with this, most definitely the nursery owners will of course benefit most. Especially unscrupulous ones hiring apprentices in such a tactical way.

However I think you might be downplaying the costs involved in maintaining a nursery, hearing, rent, ‘cheap’ food, paying staff and overheads.

I do speak from some experience and I can promise the directors did v well indeed.