Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

It received no media attention because you were all well behaved.

I remember the student marches about tuition fees. There were lots in London as there are lots of universities in London. The only ones that got media attention were the ones where people misbehaved.

This is why Just Stop Oil are doing attention seeking activities.

You’re wrong, firstly I pay more than you do.

You’re confusing the issue, I’ve tried to explain. Yes you are right that the govt should step up but no you are very wrong to think that whatever hourly rate you’re paying is too high and pricing you out of work.

What do you think would be an acceptable amount per hour to charge to care for your young child? Please do answer. To see of the two of us which is living in fantasy land.

I can relate to @momlette experience actually going by what I have seen in various nurseries.
Also agree with the food. The kids at the nursery I went to last week get 1 dry Jacobs cream cracker at snack time. Other times it's cheap yogurt, beans on toast etc.

Then you pay more because you have more.

I’m pleased for you.

you are very wrong to think that whatever hourly rate you’re paying is too high and pricing you out of work.

Can you explain why you disagree that childcare is pricing women out of work? The value of quality childcare and the cost to deliver it are two different issues.

There are women in the UK who cannot afford to work because of the cost of childcare - that’s a fact.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/15/childcare-costs-women-britain-work-mothers

@Tillsforthrills of course the cost of childcare is pricing parents, mainly mothers, out of work and limiting the size of families.

Or what did you think the protest at the weekend was about?

No one has answered me on what they think a fair hourly rate of childcare is?

How much do you think is fair to pay an hour?

My point is and has been the lack of government funding and subsidy. That is a given.

But to say it’s the price of childcare implies something else, which is - providers are charging too much.

It is subtle but it’s an overwhelming sentiment as it seems from you. Truth is there are many issues such as why it always falls to the mother.

But I’d love to know what you deem an acceptable hourly amount for you personally? And I hope you don’t avoid this question…as others have. Explicitly state what is fair and right in your eyes to be charged please.

I'm a deputy in a nursery.

We have 48 hour exclusion for loose nappies and sickness. If there are 3 loose nappies or 3 vomiting incidents in 1 day, theres a call to collect then they need to be 48 hours clear before they can come back. Same for staff too.

Following routine childhood vaccines, we expect temps. If a temp occurs after them, it's a call for permission for calpol. If temp hasn't gone down within the hour, they need to go home but can come on the next day.

Newly prescribed antibiotics, they need to have been on them for 24 hours before they can come in.

By loose nappies,.we mean the ones that are like water where they soak into the nappy and you barely need a wipe to clean the bottom.

We also can't give calpol for teething pain as we can only give it for temps so if you don't send anything in, your child won't get anything to help teething pain. We would keep them but always let you know at handover that they need something for their teeth.

I've done it long enough now to know if the smell of a nappy is teething or upset stomach.

If you genuinely think it's because ratios are not being met, then maybe a call to Ofsted with your concerns. Ratios are 1:3 for under 2 1:4 for under 3 and 1:8 for over 3s, though if you have a Level 6 member of staff, it can be moved up to 1:13 for the over 3s.

Its bullshit horror stories like this that also damage nurseries.

No wonder we get treated like the scum of the earth when lies like these get circulated.

If this "story" is even slightly true, I hope you reported them to Ofsted?

Ok @Tillsforthrills

Incase I’ve missed it, would you mind telling us what YOU pay for childcare per hour/day? Do you think it’s enough, or do you top it up every month from the goodness of your heart?

I pay £67 a day. Of course, I’m not just paying that for the sole care of my child as the ratio is 1:3. So that is £201 a day for accepting 3 babies for one worker. How that is then spent/filtered down is totally out of my control.

Your turn.

I have no idea - I’d have to understand the nurseries overheads and the quality of care vs the budget.

what I do know, is that I have to have some money left over after childcare for it to be viable for me to use it.

Ive not made comment about how much providers charge, only acknowledged the fact that many mothers are priced out of the workforce. That is not a value or moral judgment of mine - it’s just a fact of the matter!

I pay 95 per day.

Why so angry?

Your costs are VERY reasonable at presumably what works out at £6.50 an hour.

You’re correct to say that calculating 3 childrens fees per worker isn’t an accurate reflection on what they get paid and that you have no idea the overheads involved.

You have said that childcare costs are the problem, repeatedly.

@Tillsforthrills

Firstly, paying more doesn’t always mean a higher standard of care. It isn’t like paying into BUPA.

Secondly, if I were to pay £97 a day, I wouldn’t be working for a pittance, I wouldn’t be working for nothing, it would COST me to work. So obviously I wouldn’t be able to afford to go to work.

How can you argue that childcare costs are not pricing women out of the workplace?

Although, I fear I could predict you’re ‘I’m alright Jack’ response- you’ll probably say all women in that situation need to get a better paid job.

That isn’t a moot issue! Childcare costs are an issue. But you’re lumping the issue of the cost of providing care with the separate issue of affordability.

They are two separate but interdependent issues! If Bill Gates decided to pay my childcare bill it would be more affordable to me, that doesn’t alter the cost of delivering it.

I’m really struggling to understand what point you’re trying to make?

OP I think we are going round in circles…! There’s enough literature out there which irrefutably supports our assertion that women are priced out of childcare.

PP seem to be confusing their own feelings around whether or not that’s acceptable with the facts surrounding the issue.

It’s not bullshit at all. All issues that were noted in any nursery were dealt with. Those that were noted that is. You can kid yourself but there are some crappy nursery staff and some amazing ones for sure. It does happen though but if you want to pretend it doesn’t go ahead and keep looking the other way. You might be protecting your own self from entertaining that such things happen but you sure as hell aren’t helping the nursery kids that suffer because of it.

What are you talking about? If you have ever seen that then you have been incredibly unlucky.
Of course we let the kids make a mess. We have gloop and times where the children have to be changed twice a day because of soaking wet clothes but that's part of the job.
We don't have time to stand and chat and as for having a nap, I assume that's a fucking joke?!
I really despair. No wonder we get zero respect with attitude and lies like this.

The previous nursery I worked in which was private said that if a child had 3 loose nappies they had to go home. A serious bump to the head parents had to collect and a temperature over 38 degrees then again parents had to collect.

This setting if temp is over 38 and a serious bump to the head they need to go home. We don't deal with nappies as ots a 3-5 setting so unsure of that policy.

Most nurseries are the same.

for the last time it’s not a lie! A young modern apprentice was hungover and dozed off on the floor of the room she was working in! Just because you don’t or haven’t done these things why does it have to be a lie? This is one of the lesser areas of misconduct I’m sure you must realise that? Every single day in every work place there are cases of poor behaviour by employees. Nurseries are not exempt. The worst of the lot will make headlines but the misdemeanours will not

If @momlette is lying then I must be as well as have seen similar in nurseries.
Of course there are some well run settings but also some terrible ones. Seeing as I'm agency staff, I'm more likely to see the worst ones because they cannot retain staff due to how bad the nursery is. But I agree, let's not be fooled that all nurseries are wonderful because they most definitely are not which saddens me to say but it is true.

Well maybe it’s how you presented it. You talked about lies about activities and staff ‘snoozing on the floor hungover.’ You didn’t mention these as one off misdemeanours that were appropriately dealt with - you presented them as if you were trying to imply this was normal nursery work procedure. When questioned you then revealed that in fact one apprentice did this one time.

It’s extremely unusual for a member of staff to be lying asleep on the floor hungover. I wouldn’t say it’s a ‘lesser misdemeanour.’ Most places I’ve worked you could get in real trouble for that. The grand majority of childcare practitioners work extremely hard for very low pay - they’re not lying asleep on the floor and lying that the kids have had French lessons when they haven’t accessed that activity at all.

There were multiple nurseries, multiple behaviour issues, some safeguarding and some other conduct issues. In many nurseries there was a problem with selling a lifestyle of Exclusive lessons but it really wasn’t what it was cracked up to be. Of course some places will be just fabulous and will do what they say on the tin. However you can’t deny the reality of the issues that happened over the years just because you don’t like them. I gave the sleeping nursery nurse as an example of an issue that occurred. A real life actually happened example. Not a made up story example. I never had that one more than once . There were many others though a wide range of issues accross sites. Some of which seemed to occur repeatedly and others that were a one off