Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

DD was horrible at 4, I think preschool was partly to blame, I can't imagine where else the things she was saying could possibly come from. Friends have gone through similar with their daughters around that age.

My boys both had terrible twos and threes, DD had ferocious, furious fours. It was like she was an angry teenager in a 4 year old body. Screaming, saying horrible things, yelling that no one loved her, storming off and slamming doors.
At that time our youngest was waking at 4am ever day too, it was a delightful combination. It doesn't feel like it right now but these things pass, both the good and the bad phases pass.

Is she sleeping well, OP?

DD1 went through a difficult time at four. This too will pass!

Care to share these things then? Because you don’t seem to be very keen to share how you deal with your DD’s behaviour.

I’m sure it would have been flagged at preschool and you say that previously you played well with no concerns.

You are looking to place the blame on developmental issues instead of looking at your own behaviour.

OP, what are the different things that are worrying you and is there any pattern to the behaviour, if you look back objectively over the last several months?

Mumsnet can't diagnose your kid - if you're worried, talk to pre-school or the GP.

Whether she is neurodiverse or not, you're going to have to live with the behaviour either way until it changes, which it will, because it always does. Have you read 'Zagazoo' by Quentin Blake? Totally describes having a kid.

One thing I learned as an SAHM is that the kids are literally like mirrors so although it's exhausting and you're ill, the only way to get out of this rut is to change your behaviour. Like right now, you're ill, she's just jumped on you and pulled your hair. What are you going to do? You could stay indoors feeling ill and getting more and more irritated with each other. Or you could wrap up warm, still feel ill, but go for a walk and let her get some energy out that way. Have a focus while you're out. Nature bracelets always works for us (fasten some gaffa tape sticky side up around her wrist and stick leaves etc to it) but there are plenty of other things you can do.

The thing you say about you and your husband being 'not emotionally strong enough' resonates a bit with me and might want unpicking. Is there more to say about that? Do you have difficult backgrounds/tense family relationships? Are you or he or both generally very sensitive, or set in your ways?

My DP has i think either undiagnosed ASD/OCPD and I am a bit of a psychological mess due to upbringing and sensitive temperament - so parenting has felt like a struggle for us both at different times in different ways, very confronting of your own issues when you are responsible for someone else's problems and feelings. It's easy to go on the defensive or fall into the patterns of parenting we learned ourselves as kids from our parents. Counselling can be really useful to help you see if your own reactions are proportionate or if there is something else at play you can get a handle on.

Try to summon all the energy and patience you've got OP, and try the empathy with limits approach. I even think you'll see a difference in one day. If she's mad, name it and show her you get it. It really does take the wind out of their sails.

So true MardyFace wrt them being like mirrors or barometers. It's hard being at home and so constant.

It will get easier. Try and catch her being good. The tiniest nice thing she does heap the praise on and tell how proud of her you are. More attention for good behaviour, less for poor behaviour. E.g. When she annoys the dog, try heaping all your attention on the dog. Good luck.

I had a DC like this. Spent a lot of her childhood in tears because of it. I would like to say it is a phase, but it wasnt with her. It WAS her.

What I would say looking back is that firm boundaries helped. Discipline straight away when her behavior was like your DD. Firm, quick, fair - then done. She pushed me away from showing too much love, I should have still showed it (and thought I did) but sometimes was too exhausted to bother. I look back now and regret that.

Also now (2 decades later) I see so much advice on children's behaviour that wasnt there, please look into ODD, it would have helped me so much to have the skills to cope.

Have to say with DD1 it was mostly to do with sleep, anxiety and insecurity - she had a little sister by then and also started school. A lot going on. Plus she was always highly sensitive - couldn't stand hairdryers and hand dryers when she was little.

These books worked really well for us to tackle the issues of not sleeping and worrying too much and helped with her overall behaviour. You work through the things together which was surprisingly quite fun and useful for me too.

www.abebooks.co.uk/What-When-Worry-Kids-Guide-Overcoming/30744318508/bd?cm_mmc=ggl--UK_Shopp_Tradestandard--product_id=UK9781591473145USED-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqoibBhDUARIsAH2OpWhWA8y05XJsYunR6yTQ_tanhCF0jhuwcp-XHubNzz7A7eck1e1Z4HcaAj2DEALw_wcB

www.amazon.co.uk/What-When-Dread-Your-What/dp/1433803186

There are others which may be useful "What to do when you feel like hitting" I believe is another.

That's not to say she became an angel overnight, but she became a much happier and more confident little girl.

She still used to find behaving all day at school exhausting, and I remember her hitting me down the street when she was 5 or 6 as I pushed DD2 in the buggy!

DD1 is 17 now, and while she is still very good at making her feelings known at times (!) she is really good company, is a lovely girl, we have a close relationship, and she has done very well at school and is on for A*s at A-Level.

It would be interesting to hear what your routine is with your daughter when she's at home. What interaction are you having with her. Do you take her out for walks etc? Mine is a teen now but she loved routine. Up for breakfast, wash and brush teeth, get dressed, go for a walk with the dog, back home and include her in helping do chores, she helped prepare lunch. Include her in a lot of household activities that you are doing and she will love it. You sound disconnected from her.

EXACTLY THIS

Yes, that's a good point @Theblacksheepandme When DD1 had an anxious time when she was 8 or 9 years old she wrote out everything she does in a day in a timetable and that structure and certainty of knowing what was coming next really helped her.

And for those saying its just a phase, it will get easier etc etc etc
NO IT WON'T! If OP doesn't start to set boundaries from NOW that little girl is gonna keep pushing and pushing.

Thing is, she's a tiny terrorist who is reigning over the house. In the nicest way, she's got way too much control over her environment.

Kids will always test boundaries, and they need to be firm and consistent. Our eldest pushed us constantly, but if you gave in to it, my god she was horrible. We did a session with a "toddler tamer" who taught us a really good time out approach, and what behaviour to ignore. It made so much sense in hindsight but we were so worn out we couldn't see the woods for the trees.

I'm going to get roasted by all anti-technology crew, but have you tried giving her a lot more screen time?

Sometimes it is simply down to parenting, and considering your DD’s behaviour was fine until quite recently I doubt she is ND or anything like that

And a lot of people seek to blame parenting when quite often there is something else is going on for the child. Why assume something had changed in parenting? That's not what I get from what the OP has written so far.

A lot of people seem to come to MN with an agenda, equating individual differences in children as some kind of "woo" that should be ignored and all children can be parented in the same orthodox way and it will solve all problems.

There's a reason we call it the fuck it fours - I totally sympathise!

I have a 4YO OP who's just started school. I think an important thing to remember is you can be loving and attentive to them but take zero shit too. You have to be firm. If she won't leave the dog alone then the child (not the dog) will have to be removed to a room away from the dog, preferably a really boring room so that it's a deterrent. If she kicks you then you absolutely don't pander to it and take her downstairs. You can't allow somebody in your bed that is violent to you so she'll have to go back in her own bed until she's ready to behave respectfully. I will admit that if our's wakes early she is allowed 10-20 minutes screentime, usually a learning app eg numberblocks. This gives us all time to humanise before we get up and gives her a bit of snuggle time. Could you maybe do something like this as a compromise? Again though I wouldn't allow it if she's kicking and being unpleasant. If you're firm it will get better. Just keep going xx

I can't be of much help in terms of what is going on with your DD, but I would urge you to protect your dog.

If this means finding him somewhere to stay for a few days or more, then fine. I would do that. When DD asks where he is, just say in a matter of fact way that he needed to be somewhere where he was not being followed and annoyed. Let her work it out.

I say this as much for the dog's sake, cos he has his rights too, as for your DD's, cos you can never know when the dog will decide he's had enough... and nor could he be blamed for it!

She's four FFS. She will grow out of it with guidance. Fearsome fours.

When she is driving you bat shit try tickling her or blowing raspberries on her. Makes you both laugh. Eases the tension...kept all of us alive...

Try deep breathing to calm you and do some calming activities daily..

Blowing bubbles is calming and amuses them.

Is she bored? My daughter is 3, same school year as yours, she pre school full time Monday - Friday 7.30-5pm.

she used to have a Tuesday off nursery and her behaviour would slip when she got bored. Pre school is so stimulating, lots to do and see home isn’t…. I’d look at upping her time at preschool, full days preparing her for school

Would agree and even go so far as to say parenting isn't actually a thing.

There are useful strategies you can use with your kids, yes, and I'm not talking about never being told off which of course is a necessary part of life and something I'd assumed the OP is doing.

But ultimately you're a human being bringing up another human being with all the infinite variety that involves. There's no point assuming some kind of 'parenting' costume if the kind of parenting you're talking about is not your personality. This goes triple for sahps because you are with your kids so much it's impossible to be anything other than you are. And your kid is a human who will respond differently to different things too. As an example my dd1 loved a race/ competition to get dressed but my dd2 did not like that AT ALL and would respond by completely ignoring you. You can't deal with those two people in the same way.

When things get hard you have to deal with your own attitude first because otherwise everything falls to pieces, frankly, but that doesn't mean pretending to be a strict disciplinarian for long periods of time when naturally you're more a 'love bomber' type. That way madness really does lie.