Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

I'm sorry but this is not right. We can't blame a mother for telling her 4 y.o. to wait and be patient. We've all done the same, small kids can be very impatient and most of us will say the same thing "hang on, be patient, I'm finishing". The difference is that most 4 y.o will keep on whining but will accept it without exploding in an anger meltdown.

Lets not go the way what's usual in MN in blaming the mother.

If you have the time/interest, read the whole thread. There is a lot of context here.

Yes, there is that possibility. But if you follow the OP posts, there is also a strong possibility something else is causing her child behavioural issues.

It's not about being "labelled". It's about getting professionals involved when a child's behaviour suddenly changes. It's the same as if you'll involve your doctor if your child is sick with a high temperature that doesn't go away, and you keep pushing asking why. I find unbelievable that in this day and age, we still take kids to doctors for a cold but it's apparently "labelling" when parents are worried about behaviour issues.

The earliest any child can be assessed by medical professionals if parents are worried about a health issue, the better for everyone. If the OPs child is on the spectrum, she'll gain vital information how to deal with her child's behaviour and help her navigate her emotions. If her child is just having a few tantrums because of her age, it's not an issue either. She's just seen by a health professional, where is the problem?

We need to listen to mothers when they say that something is wrong with their child. No one knows better than them.

@MilkMouse I don’t think I was ignoring her feelings at all, I told her to just try to wait a second whilst I brushed my hair and sorted my bag.

So, the teacher didn’t bring Dd when I came to pick her up at lunch, it was the assistant which was a bit annoying as I wanted to see if we could arrange a meeting (have previously emailed and no reply 🤷🏻‍♀️)
Dd seems much happier, which is interesting, hopefully no meltdown later. She did say a boy in the class pushed her, so she pushed him back, he pushed her back and she hid under the table and cried saying ‘I want my mummy’ 🥲
She said she was there for a while behind the teacher came

I have RTFT.

OP, one thing that really stands out is that you come across as very anxious indeed. I can't help but think this is transmitting itself to your DD. Nobody on here can diagnose ADHD/ASD; a lot of what you are describing is normal childhood behaviour (especially as the increase in these tantrums coincides with her being ill and starting pre-school).

No child is perfect, and most of them have horrendous phases. One of mine saved the screaming and shouting and really severe tantrums for the teenage years. She's fine now. Another of mine does have what used to be called high-functioning AS and there really is a difference between monster tantrums and meltdowns. Someone upthread suggested hugging a child who's having a meltdown; that emphatically does not work with real meltdowns. Nothing works with them, other than ensuring that the child and everyone else around them is physically safe.

It's easier said than done, OP, but you need to stop devoting quite so much time to worrying about this. By all means seek advice from teachers/GP - but it seems to be completely consuming you. If you had three other children, you would not be fixating on this so much as they'd all be doing things that concerned you. There is too much focus on this one child.

In the situation where your DD started screaming at your husband about him sitting in 'her place' (and all DC like to have their own 'special place' - there used to be serious sibling warfare if one DC sat in another's seat), he ought to have given her a warning then removed her completely from the room. Not up to her own room (bedrooms aren't punishment places). You shouldn't always be the one dealing with her, but you and he need to agree on strategies for 'bad behaviour' first.

@NoKandoo Ive only really been totally consumed the last couple of weeks, I admit I’ve been very worried due to the change in anger and the level of anger and I’m definitely anxious about i. I’m actually fairly chilled out in general, but I do feel I’ve lost her in a way at times.

@NoKandoo They are definitely meltdowns, she barely had tantrums before really, she’s a strong willed character but considering this, we’ve not had *That many tantrums. Convinced a lot is from school and there seems to be a lot of them hitting each other etc, maybe it’s shocked her a bit? Or really upset her? The language of shouting ‘Leave me alone!’ ‘Go away, get away from me!’ Was never used before starting pre school, is this normal and something sadly that she has to get used to 🤷🏻‍♀️

Social stories would be helpful for someone her age and level of understanding, I think.

There are loads of great resources already out there.

thecontentedchild.co.uk/product/when-it-goes-wrong-after-school-free-download/

I do feel for you, @Cantfeelmuchthesedays. I don't know if it helps at all - might just muddy the waters further - but my child who had meltdowns had them right from the very start. They didn't suddenly appear at a certain age. Even then, there was a long period when it wasn't clear whether their behaviour was 'normal childhood behaviour' or not. Hence it's very difficult to diagnose particular additional needs until children are older, when their peers have 'grown out of' similar behaviours. At the time, we followed advice from school/GP not to go down the diagnosis route until age 7 or so (though parents may be advised to ask for advice earlier now).

I have several children who are now much older than yours, so have seen a lot of children over the years. Some of them are just very feisty and strong willed. I think people particularly notice it if girls aren't just 'nice' and passive and happy to sit and colour - but it's normal to be a girl and to be furious and frustrated too. Illness and exhaustion could well be at the root of your DD's behaviour at the moment - plus the newness of fitting in at pre-school. Think of what it's like when you start a new job or first went to university or whatever: it's horribly stressful even when you have the experience and the vocabulary to rationalise it.

‘I don’t think I was ignoring her feelings at all, I told her to just try to wait a second whilst I brushed my hair and sorted my bag.’

From your adult perspective you ‘just’ said that, but from a 4 year old perspective it is a big deal. It doesn’t matter that it feels insignificant to you, this stuff is important to them. She was experiencing some huge feelings around feeling IMPATIENT. Then you told her to just be patient - exactly what she felt incapable of doing.

To acknowledge and validate her feelings would have been to say:
‘you want me to hurry up’
‘you’re feeling really impatient’
‘you’re getting frustrated because you don’t want to wait anymore’

None if that means you have to hurry up, she’s not in charge, but she would feel heard and understood

This is the very basics of what other people have already pointed out in books like How To Talk… and the Janet Lansbury stuff, but you don’t seem interested in trying out any of that

Some of it is so simple and many people dismiss it, but it matters. I spent years in therapy dealing with low self esteem and learning how to self-regulate largely because my feelings were dismissed and minimised in childhood.

Why were you brushing your hair and sorting your bag out in the car park?

Why was your bag unsorted? What sorting did it need?

Why was it important to brush your hair? You were going into the supermarket, not a garden party at the Palace.

I have clear memories of myself as a child of about 4 going completely bananas in a fabric shop where my mother had taken me to buy fabric for a summer frock. The hunt for a pattern and then for the right fabric was mind numbingly long and boring and it looked to me as if my mother was touching every single bolt of fabric in the shop, and then going through the palaver all over again. She did this all the bloody time because she sewed all of our clothes.

My point is - organise your bag at home. Leave your hair as it is when you get to the shop. Park, leave the car, get a trolley, and get on with things.

If you have some sort of anxiety that requires you fiddle with stuff before getting on with tasks, get help for that.

@mathanxiety Seriously?!

I have no anxiety about it, I literally had to unplug my charger from the car to put in my bag, check I had my wallet and run a brush through my hair.
That’s not unusual or wrong or keeping her waiting for ages.

@MilkMouse I'm sorry your feelings were dismissed in childhood, this isn’t happening here, I listen to my girl and adore her. I’ve taken what people have said and made changes but I’m also being honest about what I did react like, surely it’s not ah overnight thing and I’m doing the best I can with a situation that has almost literally changed overnight.
Being rude and bringing your own childhood into something that is nothing to do with that isn’t being helpful at all.

That's really helpful I'm sure. 🙄

There you are OP. Problem solved.

@Mamai90 I know 🤷🏻‍♀️I don’t understand why some people just want to attack when someone is clearly going through a hard time, why bother to even comment.

If you were in the car for so little time after you parked, how did DD have the time to develop a full blown tantrum?

What you're describing would take less than a minute.

OP I'm not sure where all this fixation with diagnosing your child with a permanent neurological disability has come from tbh (except that it's MN so that's always the advice you'll get...) Your posts to me read much more like she's just using the behaviour to communicate a need and has learned that it gets a reaction from you and gets her her own way. That's not to say you don't address it but you need to be firmer on not tolerating the behaviour and think about how your own stress levels and behaviour are impacting on her. I'd also be really exploring preschool with her and taking an interest in how she's doing there as it sounds like preschool triggered a lot of this. Is it definitely a good nursery? Is she happy and safe there?

Your posts give me the impression that you're constantly treading on eggshells with your own child and if this is genuinely how you're feeling then you need to find a way of getting over this or you'll probably always be treading on those same eggshells as she'll realise it for sure. She'll use it but in some ways she will be just ad anxious and frustrated by it as you are. It's our job to teach our child unconditional love and empathy by giving it to them. That means that we try our best to connect with them and understand their world. It doesn't mean we're solely responsible for making them happy and comfortable 100% of the time. This is an unrealistic expectation that will only disappoint you and your dd x

Except it's not an overnight thing, is it? You said she has always been 'hyper'.

@mathanxiety Exactly, this is my worry, it’s not normal. Worried sick.

She had a nightmare last night, woke up this morning very upset and was really angry shouting this morning, we couldn’t calm her down again, it seems to come out of nowhere and she can’t stop, I just held her and then she calmed, have booked a normal doctors appointment, this doesn’t seem right at all. She was speaking about the boy hurting her yesterday and her hiding under the chair crying, is it per school causing it or something else, feel so lost with all this now.

@nononononovom Yes, she’s always had times of being high energy but wasn’t constantly and she could be calm and concentrate etc

I don't know; when your child displays behaviour that seems out of the norm and doesn't respond to generally recommended parenting techniques, it's at least worth entertaining the idea that they might be neurodiverse in some way.

It gives you access to different ways of doing things and helps you not to feel like a failure of a parent (which is how I felt between my own DD being 3 and 7).

They don't hand diagnoses out like smarties. It takes years and generally a fair bit of your own £.

I'm not going to post again OP, as all the things I've found useful are already listed on this very long thread, but trust your gut. It's a lot easier to make changes when DC are young.

And please get some help for your own anxiety - it sounds miserable.

I presume you have plenty of experience of being around neurodiverse kids if you're a teacher? So what exactly worries you sick? Is it the fact that your child struggles with what you think is 'normal life'. There is no such thing as normal life. You can learn ways to work with your child to alleviate their anxiety and learn ways to de escalate conflict, maybe you feel like you didn't sign up for that when you conceived your child, but the reality is EVERY parent signs up for that. And the result is a mix of genetics and chance.

You didn't cause the issues she is having right now, but you can find ways through them. You're just going to have to work a bit hard to do it.