Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

This!!! 100%!

I have a 4.5 year old who can be an utter delight, thoughtful, kind & considerate. She is also extremely strong-willed! I try to follow this as much as I can - apologising when I’m wrong, treating her with respect and kindness. Try talking to her about the negative behaviour when you are both calm rather than in that moment. I had a very sad childhood where I was only really shown love by my parents when I was ‘good’ and this definitely feeds into my parenting when I’m tired and stressed but I’m working very hard & in therapy to be the mother I want to be and should be for my daughters, rather than the one I had x

@TheSilentPicnic and @APoll16 really good replies, thank you.

this could be my DD at the moment. Your comments and others have been really helpful.

OP, hang in there - I’m in the thick of this stage with you!

I have 4 DC and they have all been through strange stages at different times when I have worried about them. Thankfully they all outgrew them.
DC1 is very bright and was totally bored age 4 so I taught her to read, write, do maths, sing, play the violin, chess etc- that helped. She never accepted being treated like a child either, she always wanted to be talked to like an adult and told about the world. It was exhausting! However, she turned out to be an amazing, strong, independent girl and caring/kind etc. Strong willed girls are a very good thing in the long run…

You can 'ignore the bad stuff' all you want but if that dog decides it's had enough of being provoked it could very well bite. You must sort out the dog issues today, if not for the dog's sake then for your daughter's safety.

@APoll16 - I apologise too when needed. I think if I wouldn’t never say I did something wrong too, she will be less inclined to listen in other moments.

like sometimes I get annoyed if she’s slow to eat, dress up, etc. and she tells me “I am getting dressed!” - I say “I’m sorry, I see now that you are” etc. She really appreciates when I apologise and it calms her down.

it’s a good idea to talk after the bad behaviour, but it definitely needs addressed when it’s happening too. You can’t apply logic in the heat of the moment, that’s for after, but you need to apply a boundary right away to show it’s not acceptable and to give the consequences right after.

Please buy and read ‘how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk’

i saw it recommended on here and bought it when DS4 was at peak conflict-mode

it has been really transformative for him and me, and we are really good buddies again
Of course there are still moments of tension and friction but I handle them very differently now

it’s a good idea to talk after the bad behaviour, but it definitely needs addressed when it’s happening too. You can’t apply logic in the heat of the moment, that’s for after, but you need to apply a boundary right away to show it’s not acceptable and to give the consequences right after.
Agreed Cristina. I think the replies are really heartening. Years ago it would have been naughty step and withdrawal of privileges. Let us know how you're going OP.

I saw a quote the other day that said parenting is a relationship.. like a pp said, it's not a technique or a parenting style. Work with her, guide her and love her through the limits. I have a tricky dc1 BTW, so I do know how hard it is. I remember one particularly hairy morning when dc2 was a baby, he broke a fruit bowl on purpose and almost pushed me down the stairs with baby on arms. He was 3 and raging with the change in his life, Inc preschool. I sat and cried, texted a friend and took us out to a park/woods for the day, stopped for lunch for a treat for me and didn't return till 4.30... one of those super days, in the end.

We’re so angry all the time with her for this, I’ve tried being gentle, being understanding, being strict, taking things away, time out, nothing changes, she’s so strong willed

There's a school of thought that naughty step / time out etc is counterproductive as it gives the message that your love is conditional on the child behaving well
pinvinpreschool.org/behaviour-and-self-regulation

Have you tried "love bombing"? We used to call it "special time" and our kids loved it. It really improved our relationship with them www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/oliver-james-love-bombing-children

Definitely.
Tall dog gates in doorways to separate them-
There is a reason reputable dog rescues won’t re - home a dog to people with young children -
Not fair on dogs or children.

Re- homing a dog in this climate isn’t going to be easy, but once the dog bites a tormenting child, it’s a death sentence for the dog anyway.

Another thing I just thought of that I have been doing with my 4.5 year old is ‘golden time’. I make sure for at least 15 minutes every day, she has my absolute undivided attention and we play or do something that she has chosen. No siblings, no phones, no TV etc and entirely led by her. This helped my daughter more than I can say! IME it’s easy to think they have your attention all the time when you’re with them all day, but if you actually think about how much is totally dedicated to them, it’s often less than you think!

From Phillipa Perry's book ' The Bookout wish your parents had read'

It’s a difficult age op because you don’t know whether it’s age or something longer term. My son was a LUNATIC at 4, we were constantly on edge, people were always asking how we were in a ‘how are you coping’ way and he honestly just suddenly settled at 6 and turned into the most quiet, content little dude. How are things in general at home? Are you all on edge now? I know you’re a sahm but do you ever get time to really sit and chill out together and have fun? Baking? Art? Games such as what time is it me wolf etc? Does your dh get to? Could you both play with the dog together then tell her calmly the dog needs a break? Parenting is up and down, you’ll get a lot of times fun ends in crying or bad temperdness etc but if you can possibly hold it together and do short activities or keep it together and distract it might help? Huge hugs op it’s all difficult but hopefully you can turn some around. Meanwhile look after yourself too x

I think it depends what you’re saying when you give the time out. If you’re telling the child she / he is “bad” then, time out or not, you’re inflicting damage on them, you’re telling them there is something wrong with them, only loving them when they’re “good” etc

if you say “hitting is bad, you need a break”, so say exactly what they did that was wrong, then it’s something else, you”re asserting boundaries.

time out is not the only way or should be the only/preferred way. It depends on the behaviour.

the idea is to put boundaries in place and have consequences.

and I think that leaving them alone in a room is too cruel. A step near to where you are works.

we only did it for a while. If you only do time out and no other boundaries or consequences, it won’t work as long or as well, it was not the most effective way tbh.

I ignored unwanted behaviour when she was too small to understand, like when she was 1. Ignore or distract, and praise the good things. She was too small for anything else. And it did work.

but it’s not too small at 3 or 4. Ignoring at this age sends the message that it’s allowed, they can do it again. They also have better memories, it’s not like when they’re little.

and with regards to love bombing, I love her all the time, praise all the time, we have 100s cuddles and kisses a day, tell each other we love each other as much, etc

i think consistent behaviour is key.

While I say that is not a normal behaviour, and I fully understand you. Think further ahead,what went wrong?

Nope, it sounds like she wants attention/tactile affection and is seeking it in unproductive ways.

DS5 used to be like this a lot and thankfully as he has got older and more able to express his feelings in words he has moved onto just asking for a cuddle or to sit on my lap “like a baby” when he needs comforting. But he is off school sick today and has spent the morning trying to climb onto my head. Also much worse if I am busy with work and he sees less of me for a couple of days (DH is around, he isn’t in childcare, but me not being at home in the evening unsettles him).

I have found that proper one-on-one quality time really helps - DS and I had a day out on Sunday all by ourselves, with a special lunch (chips in the park cafe), and he was the picture of good behaviour all day long.

The “dawdling/not doing stuff when they are told” is just a child thing I think - we have to stand over DS on weekdays to get him to finish his breakfast, and still help him to get dressed for school or it would take half an hour (he can dress himself, and does it himself at weekends, for bed, and for activities like swimming. This is just for speed).

You mention your DH is stressed, has he changed how he is with your DD? Could she be acting out the stress he brings into the home?

Thinking of you. That sounds hard. I volunteer with neurodiverse children and have learned about Pathologival Demand Avoidance as part of autism. You might find some strategies aimed at PDA people worth a try. I've certainly found some stuff helpful in my own life 🙂

I massively feel for you. 4 was a VERY stressful time with my sensitive and spirited DS. For what it's worth, he's now a lovely kind 10 year old so it doesn't last forever.

I found very regular food and drink, quite a boring/routine home life, giving responsibility and praise ("wow, look at you carrying your plate of apple to the table!") and desperately trying to keep my cool all helped.

You might find this book helpful too: www.amazon.co.uk/Talk-Little-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/184812614X/ref=asc_df_184812614X/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310834580283&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8111439565672487135&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045587&hvtargid=pla-470202693344&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

There's also a facebook group for the book ( called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will talk") where people ask questions that might be helpful.

There is no way I'd have put up with that from DS at any age and he knew it. There would have been consequences.
As a result it was peaceful and pleasant at home.

Also, with the sudden jumping on you and pulling your hair, is it because she wants some intense physical interaction with you but her little brain isn't processing "I want a big hug from mummy" and she just ends up diving on you and hurting you? Could you say "NO hair pulling. Do you want to do tickling/cushion fight/big squeezy hug instead?" to divert the unwanted behaviour into some acceptable behaviour?

Reward charts really helped us at this age.

All behaviour is communication. That said, what is she trying to communicate to you, OP, by acting this way?

Her behaviour is consistent with somebody feeling insecure. Have there been any big changes recently?

Read that how to talk so kids will listen book. The whole brained child is good too.

Hard as it sometimes is, you need to be on her side. Consequences for bad behaviour, strong routines but when you're with her, act as if you believe her to be lovely and wonderful and anything she does that steps away from that is an aberration. Don't slip into being oppositional and thinking she's a pain in the bum.

Eg - she shouts that you're getting something wrong. Don't say 'I'm not' etc or respond with frustration. Say - oh do you think so, do you want to show me how you would do it, what should I do differently etc. It's much harder for a child to keep being angry at you when you're calm and polite with them. If you show annoyance and impatience, they'll reflect it back at you.

No phase lasts forever!

Thank you everyone, appreciate the tips.

I did say methods I’d used up above (to the poster who kept asking)

In terms of worrying if there’s something else. She’s started having meltdowns, these aren’t what I’d call normal ones, I cannot calm her down, she gets v v angry and it’s almost like she goes into a different place. She’s angry a lot when wasn’t before, her short term memory seems to be getting worse and she sort of opens her eyes wide sometimes (like a tic perhaps)
She always v active when young (never stopped) it was always hard to get her to sleep. She’s v bright, spoke v early and v well, v independent, v sociable etc
Its the recent anger and meltdown, coupled with the hyper behaviour that worries me.

We've always had a great time together, walks in the woods or on the beach, with the dog, baking, crafts, games, reading etc (I’m a teacher or was before I became a sahm, so we’ve done a lot of fun learning) she used to love this but sometimes can’t concentrate as much nowadays.

Thank you for the private messages from those urging me to see someone as your child was/Is the same. I’m not really sure what to think.

We’re trying the best we can, we love her so much and give her endless affection and tell her this. We’re just at our wits end and exhausted now.