Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

@mikado1 Hi, thanks for asking. Well the morning getting up was okay but then not great when we were upstairs getting ready, it just seems to come out of nowhere and she was slamming her door again and again. I came to get her and just picked her up and she sat on my knee and cuddled into me and was saying how I can see she’s angry and we all get angry but she can’t slam doors etc and was talking to her about trying the breathing we said or coming to hug us if she feels angry (appreciate it’s not that easy! We played together upstairs for a bit, it was all good, then I did something wrong (coloured something wrong I think) and she shouted at me and ran downstairs and said ‘Daddy’s back i’m going to him!’ 🙄
We were meant to all go to the playground then get some bits from the shop for bonfire night, she said to me she wanted to go with just daddy (she didn’t say it a mean way) so I said that was ok (secretly a bit 🤷🏻‍♀️What have I done) but obviously Sydney show that. So they went out and had a nice time, she’s generally easier when out.
The afternoon/evening was fine until just before bed, when she went all hyper again, blew out my candles, ran everywhere and shouted at me to go away and sit down, went up for bedtime stories with dh and was shouting and hitting him…don’t understand it, it seems to come in this moment all of a sudden, not always, I bushy something mainly provokes it-us not playing right or her not getting what she wants all the time.
So we continue..admittedly I did sit there and wonder why she said she only wanted to go with daddy!

@mikado1 That article is really interesting, makes it sound so normal. Yes, I think we’re struggling between being what we now worry was too firm/shouty 😬hard not to be when she was hitting and screaming at us and now trying to be extra loving and understanding but it doesn’t feel right for us to shout at us to sit down etc like she’s in charge!

I have found 'Do you want to try that again?' works well if spoken rudely to or, if feeling playful, I encourage a reverse, walk backwards from the room and try the 'scene' again. JL does make it sound normal, for sure. You can literally Google her name and any issue and you'll likely come up with something!

@Cantfeelmuchthesedays Yes, I think we’re struggling between being what we now worry was too firm/shouty 😬hard not to be when she was hitting and screaming at us and now trying to be extra loving and understanding but it doesn’t feel right for us to shout at us to sit down etc like she’s in charge!

This is a common misconception of gentle/respectful parenting, people mix it up with permissive parenting which is really bad for children. You are absolutely in charge, you are her calm and unflappable leader. Her feelings are allowed and accepted no matter how ‘ugly’, but that does not mean allowing the behaviours.

So they went out and had a nice time, she’s generally easier when out.

You stayed at home because she told you to?! This would really give the wrong message that she is in charge - they act like they want power but it actually terrifies them, firm boundaries are comforting. A respectful parenting approach would be something like ‘you don’t want me to come, I hear you. You want to go with just daddy. We are all going together, as we are a family.’

came to get her and just picked her up and she sat on my knee and cuddled into me and was saying how I can see she’s angry and we all get angry but she can’t slam doors etc and was talking to her about trying the breathing we said or coming to hug us if she feels angry (appreciate it’s not that easy!

Sounds great. Was that all in the moment she was angry or later? That is a lot to say and they cannot process logical thought while they’re feeling the big feelings.

Have you read up on this kind of approach? There have been tonnes of great recommendations for resources on this thread.

Here’s another:
www.janetlansbury.com/2015/02/when-children-prefer-one-parent/

@Manamala It wasn’t because she told me too, I wouldn’t do that, I could see she needs connection with him, he’s often just at work or he came back last night and went straight to bed as has worked through this cough/cold thing. I thought that would be good for them and also was overwhelmed with 12 hr days of it all tbh and it helped to sit alone, quietly for a few hours to process this week.

It was after the door slamming, but strangely she was calm pretty quickly and did listen

We feel like we’re just constantly repeating ourselves and it’s getting us nowhere but we have to persevere. For example, today she got angry (not even sure what about this time) and ran off and threw her marshmallow stick thing on the floor, so it was a firm ‘Come back and pick this up, thank you’ I could see her wondering whether to argue against it, but she came back and picked it up. I can’t just stand there and let her be like, oh well I’ll just throw that deliberately on the floor because I can…
The struggle is more when age gets angry and starts shouting and then for example runs off shouting ‘Go away! Sit down!’ (the sit down part is a new one today) do we just keep repeating to her that you don’t talk in that way, do we go and get her/order her back in…then do what? It’s so hard, it’s like before she didnt do this or push boundaries in this way

@mikado1 It always works well if she’s asking for something and veers into rudeness territory, I usually sat I’ll wait until she asks nicely etc and she’s good like that, it’s the running away shouting ‘Go away!’ etc that’s hard

It was after the door slamming, but strangely she was calm pretty quickly and did listen

Probably because you said ‘how I can see she’s angry and we all get angry’ you acknowledged, validated and normalised her feelings. This is a great approach to big feelings. Often called ‘name it to tame it’.

do we just keep repeating to her that you don’t talk in that way, do we go and get her/order her back in…then do what

The best thing to do in that moment is simply acknowledge and accept her rage with as few words as possible, and then the lessons and boundary enforcement come later when she is calm. As has been said on this thread lots of times, you cannot verbally engage with an angry child. They are not physically capable of rational thought when the emotional part of their brain is fired up.

Its too much to explain on a forum. There are so many good books you can read that have already been recommended. Hunt, Gather, Parent and How To Talk so Kids Will Listen explain it very well.

If she is suffering with anxiety.that can come through as anger. At that age they cannot even begin to understand what these anxiety’s are.can’t understand them or be explained to them.their minds and bodies just feel so weong(anxious). But what they can release is anger they can show that.

@kateandme i don’t know what she can be anxious about at 4 😔

You can't see how starting pre school and getting older and more independent wouldnt cause worry? It is fairly normal at all stages to have some form of fear.

Also her constipation and the pain and the fear of having that again would be a cause of anxiety

@Quartz2208 Yes of course, just maybe not to this extent. How can we ease that anxiety aside from offering lots of love, affection etc

There are many reasons why a young child could be anxious.

Some of those reasons have been mentioned in this thread. It could also be a combination of different things and when added together it's all too much for her?

Please don't get so focused on the worry that she may have ASD/ADHD/other that you forget to explore all the other possibilities for her behaviour.

She may have ADHD or ASD but on the other hand she may not.

You've been given some wonderful advice on this thread and also many great links for you to read and research further. Hope today is a good day.

By modelling as much as you can - I find the more anxious/stressed/negative I am the impact on my children is huge.

I imagine that you spend a lot of the day stressing about whether she is going to have a meltdown

To be honest children at that age have no understanding of what being treated “well” or “badly” looks like. To them they are treated as they should be, to them the adults are the “correct” ones in charge.
Set up a pretend play school, with dolls for the students and a teacher and ask her to re-enact what nursery is like. Let her take the lead, sit back and watch. Don’t nod, or make any “yes that’s right” noises etc, stay neutral and impassive, just observe.

As @PuddyR79 said, you’ve been already told by PPs so many ways to do this and have been given so many valuable resources. But you don’t seem to engage with or reply to these suggestions for reading resources on parenting.

You have mentioned just one instance where you employed respectful/connective type parenting by validating your DDs anger and you said that she strangely calmed down. It is not strange - it is an evidence based way to deal with big feelings but you can’t consistently implement it unless you’re willing to research it.

You said that previously you were ‘shouty/strict’ - this would have caused anxiety but if you continue to be gentle with feelings and have firm boundaries with behaviour she will start to feel more secure over time. To prevent anxiety in her it is so important to be consistent and predictable in your reactions.

@Manamala I do nothing but read and look at people suggestions and am very grateful for them.

@Manamala I meant strangely because this hasn’t been calming her down recently, she’s been pushing me away or screaming since this has all got worse

I think people are being very patient with you here, OP. They're suggesting things and you're just replying 'But how?' 'But why?' And, with all due respect, they don't know. You're your child's parent and you know them best. People are being pretty specific with their responses to you and you're just shaking your head at them and acting mystified. You've been given lots of good advice, but you are the one that's going to have to do the legwork here.

It's a bit odd, to be honest. Some of the ways you phrase how you approach your parenting are also a bit odd. You may just be overthinking everything, but even that in itself is something in you that you might want to address.

@nononononovom What phrases have I used that are odd?? 🤷🏻‍♀️
Ive said that I’ve taken lots of board from so many really helpful posters and have read lots up on it since and am now feeling more confident, more relaxed about it and they way I used to feel. We had a really hard week last week with illness and allsorts and it’s been really out of character.
Thanks for that point though 🤷🏻‍♀️

So you say on one hand ‘Ive been worried about a few things that seem different for a while’

And then ‘I’m just surprised the intensity of those traits can happen fairly rapidly?’ And that this week had been hard.

So which is it? She’s always had the traits or she hasn’t?

And the crux of it is when you say this ‘I just wish someone could tell us what the issue is’ - they can and will, but not immediately, and certainly not on a Mumsnet forum.

@nononononovom I had said, lots of times, that she’s always been v high energy and hyper at times, but wasn’t sure if that’s just her character or something more. I said she’s had an increase in meltdowns and severity of them a little while after starting pre school…but that the intensity of them and the aggression has been since being ill last week and had really shocked, worried and upset me.
It's true I am an over thinker/worrier at times though and because of the change in her, it has really worried me, I don’t think that’s that odd.

*Worse since being ill last week

Glad you're feeling more relaxed and calmer...this could mean more than you realise. This idea of wondering what is causing it seems to be taking you over a little, I think you need to accept she has anger and/or anxiety and it is always, always better out than in. Can you look at it as a welcome release that you can facilitate her in letting it out safely, and being ok with those feelings? The more you resist it or see it as a negative, the more it is likely to continue..
I agree with manamala that you are the breezy, unruffled leader. Hope today goes well.

@mikado1 Thank you 🙏
We’ve had an ok rest of the day but a couple of random episodes of the just shouting and screaming out 🤷🏻‍♀️Nice day where we are so we’ve had all the patio doors open, god knows what the neighbours think. So hard as she gets so loud at points, I did pick her up and take her upstairs as she wouldn’t stop and crying to get her to calm. Just left to head to the shop and she’s with Dh, she’s doing it a bit again, but he said he’ll just sit there and let it go over his head and he’s become numb to it now. Still does feel weird for me to just ignore it, but nothing else works, we try to say to stop shouting and she tries to shout over, if we do nothing, she stops…not too long after.

I say this as a parent of a high energy 4 year old who has meltdowns when she’s tired/hungry/ill or when routines change: the more anxious you get about her big feelings and the more you feel like you have to get her to stop/be quiet/ don’t upset the neighbours, the more she’s going to act up. She will feel more insecure if she knows she can freak you out with a bit of shouting. Validate her feelings with as few words as possible, try to calm yourself down first and foremost, and let her know you’re there for her. If she hits, you can ”you can’t hit me, but you can hit this pillow. ” Show her it’s okay to feel angry, and show her safe ways to get the angry feelings out.