Sat here crying about DD’s behaviour

[Cantfeelmuchthesedays]

I can’t take much more of it.
She woke up at 6 am, shouting she wanted to go downstairs, kicking me in my back.
Asking me to help her to do things and then getting angry as I’m doing it wrong. Constantly reacting and shouting and screaming. Following the dog around annoying her.
She’s not very pleasant anymore, at all and it’s causing huge problems between Dh and I, he’s stressed at work then comes home to shouting and screaming and taking ages at bedtime to sleep etc. Weekends are hell also.
We don’t have much patience anymore and I’m starting to dread waking up, my only peace is when I’m asleep.
I just don’t know what to do and if any of this is normal and a phase and will pass or something else. Taking her out is a nightmare, spending the day at home for 12 hours is worse.
As awful as it sounds, I miss my old life so very much, I don’t enjoy motherhood anymore and don’t know what happened to my lovely girl, I don’t know if we’re to blame or if it’s normal and we’re not emotionally strong enough.
Will this just be our lives now

We were talking the other day and she told me some things about pre school that made me feel sad, I’m sure she must struggle whilst there, hence I need to talk to the teacher. Things never used to be like this, just feel I’m worried sick about her all the time.

@pompomsontheedge Are you going through similar?

She'd been in your bubble up until then. Now she's realising the world is bigger and noisier and busier and more demanding and she's struggling. As she gets older this will continue, unless you put things in place to minimise her anxiety, such as using visuals to explain what you are doing and the sequence you'll be doing them in, keeping outings as demand-free as possible, giving her lots and lots of downtime, providing outlets for her to receive the sensory feedback she needs over the course of the day.

You mention you're a teacher, you must do this for other children with SEN in your classes, you just need to bring those things into your home.

I do agree with others that this sounds like sensory issues which have been majorly triggered by being in pre school. My two have learning differences and it's a life changer getting a diagnosis.

Just a small idea before you have a child psychology appointment to explore this - with our two, we found a huge benefit in making clear well ahead of time what we were going to do for the day, how we would get there, when we would get a snack, etc. The predictability made a huge difference! Meltdowns and crying just disappeared which was amazing as it is a very easy thing to do really. We did nothing spontaneous for a long time either but that wasn't a problem as planning ahead a bit was actually really nice. They've gotten better as they've gotten older. House rules chart was huge, too, as they could predict and understand what got rewarded and what got them in trouble and gave a bit more structure (e.g., no devices after 7pm, quiet time before bed, etc). It also meant no spontaneous rule changes. I'm thinking the brushing hair in the carpark is a real trigger example, as it was a spontaneous thing, and a rule, say, that hair is brushed in front of the mirror in the mornings only would be more predictable and lead to less stress.

Not read all the messages! Does pre school have a senco? If yes I'd ask for her to be observed. I'd also request a hv visit or go to gp and request paediatrician appointment (there maybe a wait) in the mean time there's some great books on 'highneed' children and parenting. I'd read up on some strategies because children who are neuro diverse or have sensory issues do not respond to typical parenting. If you feel it's pre school then maybe take her out and try again at a later date? There's also parenting classes usually ran through your local council which also could have helpful strategies and talking to others in a similar situation can be therapeutic.

I thought the behaviour had been for much longer than just a week. One week is literally nothing in a 4 y.o. At this age they can be so emotional and mercurial, it's normal for parents to suddenly think "what's on earth is going on".

Children this young experience emotions they can verbalise. That's normal. It's only when a pattern (as in daily) of aggressive, impatient and full melt downs happen without knowing why, that you should worry.

They can't verbalise

@Softplayhooray It was me quickly brushing my hair in the front mirror, something I’ve done a million times before, even if not that, I sort my bag out etc before getting out…literally takes a minute, she never bothered before.

@Alondra No, she’s had bigger meltdowns getting upset a few times a couple of weeks after starting pre school. But when she got sick around 9/10 days ago, she got so much worse, complete anger etc

@autienotnaughty Yes I’m going to ask all that today, I’ve requested a meeting and with the head present too, so I’m hoping the class teacher can give me a day/time today. The teacher has always said she’s fine, aside from the day she was *Agitated, but again said it’s not a worry, she really emphasised that to me and that they calm down at 5. Surely a teacher would see these things in the classroom. I so wish I could observe her in the classroom

@nononononovom This is the thing, she’s never been bothered about routines, she’ll quite happily say ‘Can we do such and such a place now’ she’s never been fixed in wanting to know what we’re doing and when, although we’ve always had a fairly predictable routine. She knows the days we go, the order of the day in pre school etc. I think it’s just when she’s in there. She’s v sociable but she said things like a girl in her class follows her, opening her eyes wide and just staring at her all the time, I think she’s overloaded by all the different kids and the way kids are, although she’s always been around lots of friends etc

Just sat in the car outside the shopping (to get some stocking fillers for Christmas) and so worried about how she is or what she’s doing.
Am I doing wrong by putting her in a situation that potentially is making her more stressed? The thought of it is horrifying me, that i’m actively taking her to somewhere and putting her in a position like that when I don’t *Have to
But would it be healthy to just keep her at home with me? I mean all her friends and everyone are at pre school, it was fine when little as all our groups would meet together, she wouldn’t play with anyone during the week, just to be at home with mr doesn’t seem great? I can teach her etc, it’s the social aspect, what do you do in this situation?

Even if we do get a report/feedback, the teacher can’t change the fact there are 23 other children in the class etc

Keep a journal of her daily behaviour, it'll help her psychologist to understand what's going on. Look, I still think she's on the spectrum because some of her reactions fit with it. But really, she needs to be fully assessed and because she's so young, the psychologist will need all the information you can give, specially if it's documented daily.

Is it possible she is fine at school and they’re not seeing anything?
The teacher wanted her to do more mornings, but surely that would bring more stress?

Can a child have just sensory issues or sensory issues with adhd or is it always asd?

You can have sensory issues without having an ASC. But they often go together with an ASC.

Don't beat yourself up whether you are doing right or wrong until you know what you are dealing with.

As a rule of thumb and until you know...

Limit shopping with a lot of people around

Limit noise

Positive reinforcement continuously. Tell her how lovely she is, how much you love her, ask her if she is going to be a great girl when you are out in ABZ because you love her so much.

Prepare for the outing in advance by telling her how proud you'd be if she's good. Smile.

Don't ever lose patience with her if she's in a meltdown. Let her rage, hug her and keep telling her how much love her while diverting her attention to something she loves or wants. Could be a visit to grandma or Santa coming soon.

Until you know what's triggering her meltdowns and anger, the only thing you can do is positive reinforcement and minimising noise and confrontation.

The problem is that most state schools teachers have to deal with so many kids' issues, that unless a pupil is becoming seriously aggressive in class, they won't notice or care enough to do a report. Your child is 4 y.o. and the majority of teachers will give her behaviour a pass because of her age. Have you talked with her teacher and asked about your daughter behaviour in class in a one on one conversation?

The first person to know something is not quite right, is always a mother, not a teacher.

ASD/C isn't a thing to be afraid of. I'm autistic and I have three degrees. Two kids. A nice house. Nice car. I've had a good life.

There seems a bit of a rush to find labels and diagnoses. Is there an outside possibility this is just a 4 year old child just lacking boundaries and having tantrums at not getting her own way?

Within literally a minute or two, dd was telling me to hurry up and getting all impatient and pushy, I was asking her to wait and she got more and more agitated, then exploded, it’s then that she won’t calm down, she just wouldn’t stop, I was sat waiting but that seemed to get her angry but I couldn’t get her out like that, it just felt really crazy and it was upsetting tbh

Again, you are dismissing and invalidating her feelings by asking her to wait rather than ‘naming to taming’ and acknowledging that she was feeling patient. You then waited presumably ignoring her rather than acknowledging how angry she was. This is what causes 4 year olds to explode.

You say you have ‘read and read’ but I don’t think have you read any of the tonnes of stuff recommended on this very long thread like ‘how to talk so kids will listen’

Nobody is trying to slap a label on the kid immediately. They're saying it's worth exploring the possibility of conditions, as many of the behaviours tie in with them. And it takes years for some kids to obtain a diagnosis, so getting the ball rolling asap is never a bad idea.

How many times a day does she eat and what kind of stuff? Small children are very prone to low blood sugar causing disregulation

The teacher wanted her to do more mornings, but surely that would bring more stress?

Most early years professionals agree that more sessions and longer sessions are far better because they need enough time and rhythm to feel settled. As several people already said up-thread.

She only just started preschool a couple of months ago, right? And not very many mornings per week, so it’ll take her longer to settle in. Your daughter could be on the spectrum, or have ADHD or anxiety, or she could just be a bit sensitive and anxious, and adapting to a big life change. Then another big change of routine happened during half term break, and she was probably off of nursery during the recent illness as well. These last couple of months include things that neurotypical 4 year olds would find challenging and would need time to adjust to. Maybe give her time to adjust for more than 2 or 3 months before you stress about a diagnosis.

And if she is neurodivergent in some way, you’ll have to accommodate her by learning how to deal with sensory overload, and adjusting the way you engage with her. A good example someone else gave above was to clearly state what the plan is for the day, and maybe even make a visual schedule of the routine for the day. As a teacher, hopefully you’ve had some SEN training for making accommodations. Your daughter will be absolutely fine, whether she ends up with a diagnosis or not, as long as you can respond to her needs and not get too panicked about something being “wrong” with her.