To let DD be herself

[Pinpot]

DD age 6 is very honest and speaking frankly, can be overly direct and tactless.

If she doesn't want to walk with a friend en route to school or if she doesn't want to play with a friend or see a relative she just blurts it out.

I can see she hurts peoples feelings although she's not malicious at all.

She will also chat on about new toys or holidays, even though she knows some of her friends don't have as much (we live in an area with some deprivation and her friendship group is diverse).

I am now and always have been very careful of peoples feelings. She doesn't seem to care.

I try to gently correct her or to provide strategies to end play dates gently or even at times to accept that she just needs to suck it up and put up with someone she's not sure about.

But part of me absolutely rejoices that she's not a people pleaser and just tells the truth.

What to do? Will life just force her to contort herself into 'be kind' or will she just go through life losing friends and alienating people? And does that matter if she's authentically herself? AIBU to just let her be who she is?

Escape, funny. No one is ever forced to interact with anyone else in life. Except for work.

There are a lot of group social situations where you might have to have something to do with someone unless you want to leave the group.

And work is unfortunately a large amount of a lot of people's time anyway.

Also arseholes as family members or in laws are a regular subject here.

More likely those that aren't offended are the only people who will keep you. Everyone else will opt out.

If everyone was left to 'be their self' we wouldn't have much of a good society left imo. The reason we teach manners is to fit in culturally ti our environment. The old adage manners cost nothing really is true.
If an adult told me they didn't want to walk with me to work outright with no real given reason I'd be hurt, think how blimmin rude and their reputation would quickly build up until they were entirely ostracised.

If that's what you hope for your dd, continue ignoring real life lessons such as how to phrase a refusal to do something and when it's right or wrong to do so.

@chaosmaker but work is a very large part of most peoples life. So being not liked at work because you're rude is not going to get you far. I work in male dominated field where being fairly rude is the norm but saying I don't want to work with you because that's how you feel will literally end you with the sack.

I think it is easier to rein in someone who is tactless than it is to build up the self-esteem of a people-pleaser who is overly concerned about other people's feelings and always puts herself last.

And the capacity to understand other people's needs and feelings and figure out subtleties is not always there in young children.

So I wouldn't be in a great hurry to work on your daughter's behaviour, but she does eventually need to behave more considerately and maturely if she's going to have friends. For my kids, watching TV and reading books together has been a good way to empathise with other people, see things from their point of view and explore ways of helping them. But it didn't work when they were very young. They just didn't get it.

I think sometimes people who describe themselves as people pleasers are actually quite passive aggressive and end up getting their own way anyway, while seemingly believing that they are really nice and putting themselves last.

That said, I think it's important for the child to start to understand that other people's feelings matter as well as hers. You won't be doing her any favours longterm OP, imo by not addressing this with her and 'letting her be who she is.'

I mentioned upthread that I have a sibling whose child never heard the word no, and was allowed 'to be who they are'. And who they were, particularly in primary school was the unpopular kid who alienated others and had literally no friends. It was very sad to see.

I think sometimes people who describe themselves as people pleasers are actually quite passive aggressive and end up getting their own way anyway, while seemingly believing that they are really nice and putting themselves last
That's actually a good point. Now you've said it I can see the martyr persona in some of this as well.

YABU not to be asserting some social skills to your DD. As parents we are responsible for raising children who will grow up to be contributing and considerate members of society. Not teaching her how to behave in a normal social setting (playground, school etc) is a sure fire way to ensure you raise an arsehole IMO

My DD is soon to be 17yo and I have literally said to her when she has questioned why I have called out her shitty attitude in the past that it’s my job to make sure I don’t raise an arsehole and unleash it on the world with no social skills.

Children practice their skills at home (push boundaries etc) so it would be interesting to know if when she is rude and blunt to you/your family at home, what consequences does she have if any?

Wow I’m truly shocked by the amount of grown adults calling a 6yo an arsehole or similar! - would they do that in RL? 🙄

Have you considered she may be on the autism spectrum? A lack of empathy/social skills is the most common sign of this and girls go undiagnosed more often. I just find it really hard to believe she’s just not a nice person, it feels like she doesn’t realise she’s hurting people and there most likely is a reason that she can’t help.

Only on Mumsnet would you get a child aged 6 vilified for their behaviour.
She is a baby, still learning and needing guidance - she cannot understand the concept of right and wrong,actions and consequences until the age of 7.

She doesn’t understand that some children don’t have the same environment as her, at that age she is very egotistical and assumes everyone is the same - empathy comes when she understands a situation makes others sad (even children on the spectrum can display empathy).

You can, as her Mum love her as much as possible (obviously) accept that she isn’t (at the moment) a people pleaser and encourage her to say things in a more socially acceptable manner and in time I think she will develop empathy and social awareness.

But in honesty, I’ve spent hours in therapy and been advised that I need to be more like your daughter 😀 and not be such a doormat !!!

Can we normalise saying no I don't want to. It's not a personal slight. It's not rude.

Oh my days, these comments! She’s 6 years old for heavens sake! 🙄

My son had a friend like this. This ex-friend has no mates now and the parent claimed in the end that he was being bullied because other kids got sick of the bragging

YABU. Your DD isn’t old enough to understand social conventions and courtesy. It’s your job to teach her. Left to their own devices most children would be self-centred, tactless and a bit rude.

She doesn’t have to be a people-pleaser. She can still say No to play dates but in a more polite way. If we all grew up being allowed to be rude, then the cogs of society wouldn’t run so smoothly and there would be an atmosphere of unpleasantness.

YABU in not teaching your DD manners and empathy. Unreasonable to her because she’ll alienate potential friends, and unreasonable to others around her who’ll have to put up with immaturity and discourtesy as she grows older.

Kindness and sympathy is largely learned. All kids are like your daughter, although usually they are learning by 6.
It’s why a 4 year old will loudly ask in the supermarket “what’s wrong with that ladies face? Why is that man in a wheelchair?”
They learn that in order to be part of a functioning society there are societal norms everyone abides by. Being rude, hurting someone’s feelings etc are all regarded by most people as a negative trait.
Allowing your DD to have no empathy for other people’s feelings is bad parenting dresses up as ‘letting her be her authentic self’.

Sorry if it’s already been mentioned but are there other things your daughter struggles with socially? Any sensory sensitivities? Does she get overwhelmed easily? Is there a chance she may be on the spectrum? Girls get missed A LOT because they’re better at masking.

But otherwise, it sounds like a case of needing to develop her skills in maintaining her boundaries while still not isolating herself. For example, instead of ‘don’t walk with us’ maybe ‘I just want to walk home with my mum today but I’ll see you tomorrow?’ I think girls are often taught to sublimate their own needs for others and you’re right to wary of such a message, but there is a middle ground to be found. And that is a very complicated skill for such a little one! Maybe play some games with dolls etc where you can act out how does this person feel? What does this person need? How can they tell the other person that?

No life won't "force her" it will be unkind back to her but perhaps YOU can teach her you know about being kind and hurting people's feelings.

You need to stop being "gentle" and start teaching her before she has no friends left. Point out how unkind it can be, and how would she feel having people say the same back to her. If she's unaware and never been taught then she will continue to hurt people's feelings.

Is it possible that she's neurodiverse. I ask as someone who works with many children that appear rude. And will say I don't like you. I don't want that present. Thats an ugly jumper. What you're describing you wish she was like is actually a complex (to some) social concept to understand empathy of others etc. Children can be very literal. We tell them to be honest and not lie etc

She’s fucking 6 years old. Wtf is wrong with you all? This is what most 6 years are like.

She’s fucking 6 years old. Wtf is wrong with you all? This is what most 6 years are like.

That's why parents/carers will generally guide their children into learning how to act socially, including telling them how to be considerate of other people. They're of an age where they are learning. I don't think many people expect 6 year olds to understand everything.

It's important not to be a doormat, but it's also important not to be rude or unpleasant. That's why we guide and teach our DC.

It’s not about her behaviour as a 6 year old it’s about the mother thinking the child is just ‘being her authentic’ self by being rude/blunt/no filter and therefore doesn’t think it is necessary at any point to encourage sympathy, empathy and kindness from her daughter. In fact op “rejoices” when her daughter hurts people’s feelings!
All kids can be like this, they learn what is and isn’t appropriate to say to someone.

I may be overthinking this but it sounds like a bit of neurodiversity - traits of dyspraxia. Is there anyone else in your family that has a habit of blurting out comments that could upset people, and does she do it when she’s stressed? It’s easy to dismiss dyspraxic behaviour as awkwardness.

I knew a child like that. She was diagnosed as autistic as an adult.

Absolutely, but we can also teach our children how to bow out without being so abrupt and reading the situation. Try saying “no, I don’t want to” to your boss and it’s not going to go well. There are certain situations that call for a little more social etiquette than that and a reason why you don’t want to. If a friend asks me to meet up, I’m not just going to say “no, I don’t want to”, even though that may be the case, I’m going to say “sorry can’t today, I’m busy later, another time?” It’s just good manners.