To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

[Alondra]

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

I'm glad someone else is sick of it.

If neither of them want to, that's for the individual couple to work out isn't it.

@AMorningstar

But hardly anyone does.

According to you

So how do we end up with a majority of women winning that battle?

If there's no social conditioning involved

And it's not arrogance.

It's knowledge and confidence.

You should try it sometime

Dp and his ex wife had roles that weren't child friendly. They tried Dp working only but his ex wished to go back to work. So they tried both working but childcare costs and schedule conflicts were a bind. Dp always had to pick up the slack.
So he eventually stopped working and stayed at home. Even post divorce he works on his business one week and when he has the children on his week he doesn't work. Too difficult to schedule with his type of role.

There are very few roles for men who wish to work within school hrs. He was well received by other parents and never had any judgements or felt left out. Quite the opposite. His children are older now but he's very hands on.

I'm confident that my views are correct and that your ideas are ridiculous modernist garbage. And I'm confident my ideal society is better than yours in all areas. So where does that leave us?

Also winning what battle? The majority of women don't want to be wage slaves. MN is a bubble in that regard.

@AMorningstar

Exactly!!

It doesn't leave us anywhere. Why should it?

People are allowed different views and ideals.

I mean the evidence is firmly on my side but that's OK. We cant all be right. Doesn't mean you have to give up your beliefs.

@AMorningstar

Winning the battle of not being wage slaves.

Why are women winning that and not men?

LMAO. Even now you have to try to assert your supposed superiority, of which there is none, because you absolutely cannot stand that you're not perceived as objectively correct. Laughable.

@FlamencoDance

Everyone I know enjoys their job most of the time.

It's a shame if people don't but I certainly don't think the vast majority of people hate working.

But as you say not working has to be justified some how I suppose.

Not convinced it's true though! And if they are doing that someone else is looking after their kids whilst their nails are done/gym... Sorry to hear your husband died, that must be very hard..Could you use your lunch break or work commute to get time back for yourself at all? E.g. run/cycle to work instead of gym and the odd lunch break book a beauty treatment? I enjoy my long commute to work on the train as I try and read a book or learn a language for me, or sometime just do life admin..however on the way back it's more stressful to get back in time for after school pick up and finish off work! If you drive you could listen to ebooks or soothing music for you time?

Yeah that's why divorce is through the roof, SSRI prescriptions are at an all time high and children's mental health is in crisis.

Work is good for mental health means things like working in a community. Helping the vulnerable, growing food and working the land, having a strong neighbourhood. Not doing back to back shifts on a busy hospital ward because you're short staffed and desperately need the money to cover your extortionate rent which is for a glorified shed in the shitty part of London

@AMorningstar

I'm not going to pretend its not the case.

Why would I

There's no evidence to support your claims. Only a need for self justification.

🤷‍♀️

It doesn't have to be justified at all actually. If someone doesn't want to work, and can afford not to, it's perfectly fine for them to just not do that. No one owes you anything

There's no evidence to support yours, you posted articles that were about a completely different issue, childcare costs.

Your ideal world @AMorningstar is Gilead.

@Jennybeans401

Sorry for your loss

Lol no it's not. You have no idea about what I would want.

Your ideal world @AMorningstar is Gilead

Sorry OP!

@AMorningstar

I havent posted any about societal norms being conditioned or about most people enjoying work at least some of the time

I never said I had posted it. Just that it exists.

You could post the evidence to back up your claim though?

Your oh doesn't count as evidence btw

This you might find interesting. It's from a feminist perspective ans it briefly mentions a more Conservative interpretation but the author clearly states she leans more in the feminist camp. However...it discuses the attitudes of young men and women regarding working.

blog.powertofly.com/amp/if-young-people-dont-actually-want-married-women-to-work-full-time-what-does-that-mean-for-women-in-the-workplace-2644908023

It's a blog?

And it doesn't work.

Unsurprisingly

🤣🤣

It's an article and it references multiple studies. Copy and paste the link

This is also interesting - girls age 9-18 don't want to become leaders and only 20% want office based work. They're more interested in learning practical skills like how to understand a mortgage and skills useful for families

www.thetimes.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fgirls-want-to-enjoy-work-but-not-lead-study-finds-v60lcmgms