Honesty or politeness?

[Thistledew]

AIBU to think that exceptional politeness is not actually an admirable personality trait, that it inhibits the making of meaningful connections, and that a reasonable dose of honesty does not amount to rudeness and insensitivity?

MIL is someone who is always polite, helpful and a people pleaser. Well, at least to peoples faces. Behind their backs she is gossipy, scathing and unbending in her negative impressions of people. She finds me rude, because I will speak honestly and have a tendency to bluntness. But what you see is what you get. I have an absolute rule that I never say anything about anyone behind their backs that I would not say to their face.

The latest thing that I have done to upset MIL, whom I have known now for nearly 15 years, was to be less than effusive over her new house. She has bought and recently done a full renovation of a lovely 1930s bungalow, which I have just seen for the first time since she did the work on it. She asked me if I like what she has done. Unfortunately, I don’t. It’s not horrendously objectionable, but I just don’t think it works and actually found it quite an uncomfortable space. It is full of original features such as dado rails and ceiling panels, but she has painted everything pure white (with a pure white bathroom and kitchen too). It made me quite uncomfortable - it was grey and gloomy with the lights off and glaring and clinical with them on.

She asked if I liked it- I said something about it being a lot smarter than when she bought it and it being great that she could decorate it to her taste, but that on a rainy day (which it was that day) pure white decor can be tricky as it will seem a bit grey.

Later, I heard her complain to DH that “it wouldn’t hurt to just be polite” and that I had been rude.

Should I have just smiled and said that it was lovely? It makes me feel uncomfortable to be insincere in that way, but maybe it’s the done thing. I would never actually tell her that I think it’s bad, but I don’t see the point either of pretending that I think something is great when I don’t. Maybe everyone else does and I am just rude as MIL thinks.

Well there is something in this. My mother is completely lacking in a filter and uses criticism as a reflexive conversational mode. But she is never truly nasty about someone and will go out of her way to help other people when she can. My father had a great curiosity about people and how they think and behave. He was very unjudgemental and always saw the best in people, even if they behaved or thought differently to him.

So yes, my upbringing ‘failed’ to prepare me for a society where the dominant trend is that people don’t say what they are thinking for fear of appearing rude, and the expectation is that you constantly self-censor and tell people what they want to hear. You can only let people see the best version of you: if they see the unvarnished reality they will not like you.

Politeness: always*

Honesty: with discretion, or if requested.

*Even when very angry, I stay polite - it really winds up the opposition.

But you’re completely misunderstanding the purpose of your MIL asking you whether you like her new paint! When she says ‘What do you think? or ‘Do you like it?’’, she’s not asking for ‘mild critique’ or ‘honesty’ — the question is a standard conversational convention which asks for an equally standard compliment in reply.

Surely you can see it’s not an appropriate situation to hit her with your actual opinion, in a way that might be appropriate if she were still considering paint samples, or had tried on a dress that fitted badly?

Hi op, I think a good rule of thumb is “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” Not literally of course, but as a prompt to focus on the good (unless your honest feedback is needed to safeguard the person, help them develop) all feedback should be done with empathy and with their perspective in mind. Ie the house might be uncomfortable for you, but can you see why she would like it? Did she achieve what she wanted to achieve? Etc

You’re an adult. Own your own behaviour. My parents are shy, isolated and friendless, and brought me and my siblings up with some deeply odd and damaging ideas about friendship and appropriate behaviour around other people. I unlearned those childhood scripts, with effort. As adults we’re not obliged to live by our upbringing.

I think you need to let go of the idea that you’re better than other people because of your ‘honesty’, and also to drop the idea that your opinion is so important it always needs to be expressed unless you tie yourself in knots to ‘self-censor’. There are situations where, obviously, a negative opinion should be given — to prevent someone from making a mistake, in a review, to exhort someone to do better, for instance — surely you can grasp the difference?

Tell the truth and face the consequences

That’s my trouble. I don’t. I take people literally. She asked a question, I answered. Why should it be my job to do the emotional labour of figuring out that she didn’t actually mean to ask a question and wasn’t interested in my answer? In her shoes, if I didn’t want a genuine answer I wouldn’t have asked a question. I would have said something on the lines of “I’m really pleased with the effect of the white paint. I think it makes it look nice and bright, even on this grey day.” Thereby communicating to my listener that I’m just wanting validation and am not actually asking their view.

Dear OP. Just read @WildGooses post over and over again until it sinks in. She has nailed it.

It is difficult for me to understand and remember to apply, because I am curious about what and how people think. In my example up thread, where my friend said that the copper in my kitchen would annoy her when it starts to tarnish, I much prefer and value her saying that over her self-censoring and telling me it is ‘lovely’. It gives me an insight into how her mind works and how she is as a person, which I really find interesting and value that connection. I don’t actually care if she likes it or not. I love it, and am secure enough in my own choices that it doesn’t upset me at all that she doesn’t love it.

You’re an adult. Stop blaming your parents and take responsibility for the fact that you are rude, you are unnecessarily unpleasant and you should realise people won’t like you for these traits.

Saying “oh but my parents…” and “oh but I don’t understand…” is ridiculous. You’re a grown woman, and you do understand, you just don’t agree or want to take part in societal niceties.

Okay, so don’t. But don’t be surprised when everyone thinks you’re a bitch and nobody wants to hang out with you. It doesn’t make you a better person, it makes you a poorer one.

You can be sincere without offending or upsetting people. It's not always 'yes it's great' or 'no I hate it'.

I have a friend who's house feels 'uncomfortable' for me. All hard lines, no squashy sofas etc. she doesn't need to know that and I don't need to tell her. I can, however, sincerely tell her that I love her new light fitting or what a difference her new cushions make to the space.

If you are only able to tell the absolute truth (as you see it) you are always going to offend someone and are absolutely precluding sincere relationships. Being sincere is about being happy for your friends, enjoying their enjoyment in things even if you don't like them, just being happy that they are happy.

Most people who are normally-attuned to social behaviour wouldn’t regard this as ‘emotional labour’, or regard it as a dilemma to be figured out., though.

My non-neurotypical godson in his early teens (who also struggled with figurative language — I remember him getting very anxious about a conversation in which someone used the phrase ‘leading you up the garden path’, because there was no garden or path, and he didn’t grasp the metaphor) had to have some help with distinguishing between situations when honesty is called for and when it isn’t, but he understands that now as a young adult.

Surely you don’t struggle with knowing how to reply to ‘How are you?’ In some situations, an honest, and possibly lengthy, reply is acceptable or actually needed — to your doctor, your therapist, to someone who loves you and is concerned about your health or MH, etc — but at other times, the appropriate reply to a casual ‘How are you?’ from a neighbour rushing past in the supermarket is a token ‘Fine, thank, and you?’ or ‘I’ve had better days!’

Oops. I did it again. Someone suggested up thread that my parents might have ‘failed’ to prepare me for life, so I took that as an invitation to explain how actually my upbringing has influenced the way I behave now.

Silly Thistledew. No one actually is interested in your thoughts. Keep practicing- head tilt “How lovely!”

But what did you expect her to do with the information once the painting has happened?

If you don’t want an answer to a question, don’t ask it. Why would she have to “do” anything with the information anyway? If I ask someone’s opinion and I disagree, well boo hoo, no big deal.

That’s true, and of course if I was visiting the home of someone I didn’t know well I would not say anything critical at all. My mistake is thinking that my MIL, whom I have known for nearly 15 years, and I can have a more open and close relationship.

This thread is helping my understand why this is not possible.

I think you are just fine OP but perhaps need to learn some ways to deflect problems with people who have obtuse motives to their communications. One strategy you can use is to ask a question back. So when she asked you if you liked the decor, you could ask her what her favourite element is. Politicians are trained to do this for the very same reason. It avoids having to lie or tell a truth the other person isn’t prepared to accept.

Agree . It's just an excuse to be rude

Thank you. That is genuinely helpful. And it means that I get a sense of connection from the conversation as I get insights into what she thinks and feels.

How lovely!

Sorry, that was me practicing my socially acceptable response to hattie43’s comment.

As you can probably tell I am also on team “don’t lie, say what you think” but I don’t consider omission to be lying. If I don’t think my opinion is going to be helpful, I deflect the question. If someone really insists, I might ask if they really want my sincere opinion, but then they’ve specifically requested it! Someone seeking to solely be validated generally won’t take it to that level unless they are spoiling for a fight and if they’re prepared for that, it’s game on.

You can use tact and diplomacy without being two faced.

The two are not.mutually exclusive. Not everyone who is polite to you bitches about you behind your back.

I agree with the others that you could have spared her feelings a bit. She obviously put a lot of effort into that house and must have been disappointed by your comments. You don't have to lie..you could have just praised the effort and said nothing about the colour choice.

I'm not saying this is the case with you but often people who pride themselves on being brutally honest, Frank and straightforward or who "don't mince their words", are what you see is what you get, are often just rude and inconsiderate.

Obviously her gossiping behind people's backs is an unpleasant character trait. But so is brutal honesty that upsets someone and is unnecessary.

As the pp said, if she was asking for your opinion on paint colours before she'd bought them, fine to be honest and say your opinion. Once painted then stick to something that is positive and still honest like how much fresher it all looks.

Continuing on with the grey comment is pointlessly critical and potentially upsetting.

They’re obviously insecure???

If they’re an acquaintance then just say they suit you and ask if they like them.

If they’re good friend then it’s an invitation for asking if they worry a lot about these things and be a kind friend and support them.