Honesty or politeness?

[Thistledew]

AIBU to think that exceptional politeness is not actually an admirable personality trait, that it inhibits the making of meaningful connections, and that a reasonable dose of honesty does not amount to rudeness and insensitivity?

MIL is someone who is always polite, helpful and a people pleaser. Well, at least to peoples faces. Behind their backs she is gossipy, scathing and unbending in her negative impressions of people. She finds me rude, because I will speak honestly and have a tendency to bluntness. But what you see is what you get. I have an absolute rule that I never say anything about anyone behind their backs that I would not say to their face.

The latest thing that I have done to upset MIL, whom I have known now for nearly 15 years, was to be less than effusive over her new house. She has bought and recently done a full renovation of a lovely 1930s bungalow, which I have just seen for the first time since she did the work on it. She asked me if I like what she has done. Unfortunately, I don’t. It’s not horrendously objectionable, but I just don’t think it works and actually found it quite an uncomfortable space. It is full of original features such as dado rails and ceiling panels, but she has painted everything pure white (with a pure white bathroom and kitchen too). It made me quite uncomfortable - it was grey and gloomy with the lights off and glaring and clinical with them on.

She asked if I liked it- I said something about it being a lot smarter than when she bought it and it being great that she could decorate it to her taste, but that on a rainy day (which it was that day) pure white decor can be tricky as it will seem a bit grey.

Later, I heard her complain to DH that “it wouldn’t hurt to just be polite” and that I had been rude.

Should I have just smiled and said that it was lovely? It makes me feel uncomfortable to be insincere in that way, but maybe it’s the done thing. I would never actually tell her that I think it’s bad, but I don’t see the point either of pretending that I think something is great when I don’t. Maybe everyone else does and I am just rude as MIL thinks.

She asked if I liked it- I said something about it being a lot smarter than when she bought it and it being great that she could decorate it to her taste

You should have stopped here. No need to add this next bit...

but that on a rainy day (which it was that day) pure white decor can be tricky as it will seem a bit grey.

are you honestly ! saying that you would expect her to redecorate to match your comments, or else why did she ask you what you thought ?
really ? or are you having a larrff.
so what when the next person says it should be lighter/darker/open plan/restore original features...
does she spend the rest of her life redecorating, or never dare ask anyone again ?

@Thistledew - do you think you might perhaps benefit from a crash course in social skills?

I'm sure there are books on this topics. You could even try YouTube.

The people who described it as ‘cold’ said that to me before I had visited and seen the redecoration.

I’m talking about it here, on an anonymous forum, to avoid discussing it with people who would know her.

I’m talking about it because I’m trying to figure out my relationship with her and whether is is better to stick to the superficial platitudes that seem to make her and others happy or to bother with continuing to try for a more sincere connection.

Don’t worry. I’m getting the message that most people value politeness over sincerity. As that’s not something that holds a lot of value to me, I think the only way of respecting our mutual boundaries is to not expect any sort of meaningful connection.

Mainly I agree that you need to be honest, especially over things that matter. The colour of her walls doesn't matter. I get what you're saying about wanting to foster a less superficial connection, but I don't see how being frank about what you think about the colour of her walls could ever achieve that- even if she took it well.

The most important thing in that conversation was that she's clearly delighted with her new home, that's a lovely thing and I'd want to reinforce that lovely feeling for her even if I quietly thought it was hideous.

Well, what I would do would be to ask peoples opinions, listen to them genuinely, and then decide if it was something I would act on or set aside.

Two sets of people have now independently found her house to be cold. If it was important to me to have a welcoming place that my friends enjoyed visiting I would want to know if actually they were put off by the ambiance. It genuinely made me feel ill at ease and like I’m not looking forward to spending time there again.

@Thistledew but who in real life genuinely is interested in what other people think or feel? If we all went round with your attitude ( feeling 'uncomfortable' when not saying the uncensored unvarnished truth) then everyone would feel absolutely battered. Ooh look I have a new dress.. like it? No it doesn't suit you. Hey I've bought this for my husbands birthday I hope he likes it! He won't it's awful. I mean can you imagine! It's called being pleasant/ getting through the day/ just being human and a bit kind to each other.

Dear oh dear you're just not getting it

There is nothing inherently insincere about politeness.

You may struggle with the social nuances that enable you to navigate around interactions deftly. It seems that this expression of everything you think or feel seems to make you feel genuine and secure.

But its not necessary and you need to learn some new skills. If you want to, you dont seem to want to though so I suppose thats up to you.

And what do you mean that you're discussing it here to avoid discussing it with other people?

Why on earth do you have to discuss it with other people, what sort of life do you live where you have to discuss someones refurb with other people??

This thread is completely pointless. OP isn’t even trying to understand. 🤷‍♀️

You're simply an unpleasant person OP and arrogant too.

This. Why couldn’t you have just said oh it’s lovely and left it at that? She’s not going to repaint because you don’t like it so you’ve just said something a bit shitty about her choices for no real reason. It’s not like you then had to go home and make sick noises and laugh at her behind her back. There’s a difference between being polite and not being an arsehole, OP.

“Have you seen MIL’s new house? What do you think of it?”

Isn’t that a fairly standard topic of conversation amongst mutual acquaintances?

I’m not completely oblivious to social nuances, neither am I crashingly rude. The unvarnished response to her question of whether I liked it would have been “God no. It’s making my skin crawl. Your kitchen reminds me of an operating theatre and your living room of a cell. The lighting is all wrong and the corridor feels like a bunker.”

But thanks for the feedback. I’m getting the message loud and clear that it’s always better to bite your lip and say nothing.

“I’m getting the message that most people value politeness over sincerity” is a lot different from what you did whether you ‘value’ that or not.

Aren’t you supposed just to say “Lovely, OP?”

I know I’ve started a thread asking for feedback, but it’s polite, is it not, to keep one’s genuine opinions to oneself, and not to say anything even mildly critical?

Gosh, I really do need a course in understanding when mild critique is desperately rude, and when scathing criticism is socially acceptable. Can anyone help me out with this?

I think you are beyond help OP as you’re not taking anything anyone says on board…

You really are playing into the stereotype that people who are 'brutally honest' and who 'tell it like it is', are just selfish narcissists who make everything all about them.

They have an overwhelming need to make sure everyone knows what they think and feel and what their opinion is as if its really important.

Now you're getting nasty with people and proving them right

That’s a straw man argument, though. It’s not an either/or thing. Perfectly possible to be diplomatic and polite to someone’s face about something as unimportant as their house’s new decor, and not slate it behind their back, either!

It’s pretty arrogant to think your opinion of something minor is sooo important that you Need to Speak Your Truth. Or that it makes you so much more morally upright than the person who says ‘It’s lovely’.

God, the rudest people I’ve ever met are the “what you see is what you get” types. There is obviously a middle ground here. Yes, obviously faux sincerity to someone’s face and then bitching about them behind their back is not cool. Neither is being blunt, however, if you know it will deliberately hurt someone’s feelings.

I don’t understand why you couldn’t internally say to yourself “hmm it’s not to my taste” while being polite and kind to MIL who had obviously spent time and money on this and wanted to show it off. Then (and this will shock you as it’s what most normal people do) keep your private thoughts to yourself.

There is a middle ground between politeness and excessive bluntness. It’s called tact.

I get what you're saying about wanting to foster a less superficial connection, but I don't see how being frank about what you think about the colour of her walls could ever achieve that- even if she took it well.

I agree.

OP - all you needed to say is something along the lines of "you have transformed the place! How long did it take?" And then deflect to something else...... "were you pleased with the people who did the work? ... How did you find them? ..... would you recommend them?" Etc etc. Then change the subject : "what are your plans for the garden? ...... and so on. Absolutely no need for 'insincerity'!

Forgot to add: in my experience it is easier to forge a connection through kindness than bluntness...

Aren’t you supposed just to say “Lovely, OP?”

I know I’ve started a thread asking for feedback, but it’s polite, is it not, to keep one’s genuine opinions to oneself, and not to say anything even mildly critical?

Gosh, I really do need a course in understanding when mild critique is desperately rude, and when scathing criticism is socially acceptable. Can anyone help me out with this?

Context. In someone's home, someone who you are not close friends with and to whom a level of respect and politeness is expected- ie your mother in law- you offer no scathing criticism nor unnecessary mild critique. The moral here is "if you can't say anything nice , don't say anything at all" .

Meanwhile on famously viper laden opinion board AIBU - expect undiluted opinion. There are no societal nor personal reasons here to be "polite" - we don't need to live with you, nor you us. We don't have husbands who love you or you have a husband who loves us and therefore a good, or cordial relationship is necessary.

Do you work op? Because if you do you know the rules. You can't be always honest with your boss, your supervisor or your customer. There's social etiquette and politeness to observe. In the workplace. If you don't have job- you once went to school. In school you cannot be honest with teachers or your headteacher nor the other students. It wouldn't be polite or appropriate. The rules do change based upon context (and culture depending on where you are in the world- of course not the same in all societies)

Are you neurotypical, OP? My ASD husband struggles massively with stuff like this.

When someone asks you what you think of their home/baby name/new big friend/new haircut, they’re not asking for your opinion, they’re asking for your validation.

It’s nuanced.

Genuinely, why do you say that? I’ve acknowledged that most people think that it’s impolite even in a relationship of a long standing nature, to speak your mind frankly.

I don’t believe it is a universal view as it is not the way that my family and most of my friends behave. But I am understanding that many people expect that. I find that sort of self-censorship uncomfortable, so it’s better that I don’t try to pursue any sort of close relationship with people who expect it.

Of course, I wouldn’t express even any mild criticism of the house of a stranger or distant acquaintance. It makes me feel sad, but it is helpful for me to understand why I’m not able to have a close connection with MIL and that the only way to keep things cordial with her is to treat her as I would a vague acquaintance.