To not want to host my brother for Christmas for ever?

[PoolHill]

For the last three years my brother (let’s call him Charles) has come and had Christmas Day with my partner and I at our house. Charles has fallen out with my parents and is no longer speaking to dad so can’t go “home”. We have another sister who also lives locally and has a husband and kids, but Charles would probably be pretty annoyed if I suggested he join other sister for Christmas, as he isn’t as close to her - largely Charles’ fault as he avoids going to visit them, and claims busyness when invited.

He’s similarly quite stubborn about the rift with dad. Initially it was both their faults, dad is now the one sustaining it but equally Charles isn’t making efforts to mend it. Won’t go up and visit parents as is worried it will be awkward etc. Wanting dad to make the first move (which dad should do but just won’t as he’s even more stubborn).

We have a toddler and I just really want to be able to have Christmas Day just us. To spend the morning in pyjamas, cook dinner the way we want it without having to accommodate Charles’ fussiness, cuddle up on the sofa once the toddler is in bed. Partner also wants a ‘just us’ Christmas but understands the situation with Charles.

But I know if I hint that we want to spend Christmas this way Charles will be v upset, and probably spend the day alone out of pride rather than go to our brother, or try to force a reconciliation with dad or find a friend to be with. I love Charles dearly and we are close, and don’t want him to be alone on Christmas. But equally, I feel like this is becoming a pattern now and that we’re going to end up hosting him for the next ten years.

What should I do?

You could always follow your gut instinct. If you feel it’s the right thing to do for your family, don’t hesitate to tell him but I’d try to be kind and schedule another Christmas celebration with him on 24th or 26th.

Is OP not allowed to have nice? Or be 'nice' to herself?

Charles is very unlikely to find a partner with whom he can create a family unit if he does not make some serious changes. It’s not ‘nice’ or kind to enable him to perpetuate destructive behaviours.

Several posters have said that by hosting Charles or trying to find a less hurtful way to not host him, instead of just telling him a hard truth and saying we want Christmas just us, I am enabling his behaviour and perpetuating it for the long term.

I do get where this advice is coming from, and I appreciate it. It’s not wrong. However, you are still essentially telling me that I am responsible for fixing my brother / changing the family dynamic and that the way to do it is to behave differently and give Charles more tough love and honesty re Christmas. I do sometimes do this with Charles on other more important issues, but on this issue I don’t want to. It would upset me and stress me out, more than is worth it. You have to pick your battles. This is not my battle to fight alone. I’m going to go with a middle way, and limit him to just Christmas dinner this year and then try to have Christmas just us next year.

I am not responsible for fixing the broken bits in my family dynamic, or making my brother change and even if I were, it is going to take a lot more than just me telling Charles a few home truths about Christmas to change him. He needs to change himself and to want to.

What I can do is make sure I don’t perpetuate this dynamic with my own partner and kid, and do what I can to sometimes challenge Charles and my dad, sometimes encourage my mum to do the same and sometimes just ignore them for an easier life for me.

You're either deliberately misunderstanding the posters or you just don't want to see it

For the final time no one is saying it's up to you to fix him. But you are enabling him. And you are making it worse. You are not helping him.

Choosing to do what you want with your own family is not attempting the fix anything. It's putting your own family and priorities first. And it's sad you can't do this.

You can say you'll protect your child from this dynamic but I don't see how when you can't even see it in yourself.

However, you are still essentially telling me that I am responsible for fixing my brother / changing the family dynamic and that the way to do it is to behave differently and give Charles more tough love and honesty re Christmas.

No, we’re saying you need to stand up for yourself, assert your boundaries, communicate what you want and stop being a doormat.

The only person banging on about fixing a family dynamic and changing other people’s behaviour is you. Nobody else thinks you need to do any of that.

The only person to change here would be you no one else as you can’t change them

Every other time you’ve told him no why not this time because it’s meant to be happy families at Christmas cos it’s furtherest from the truth as you’ve stated you want a quiet Christmas just 3 not 4.

Yup.

But she’s not ready to engage with what you or anyone else is saying. This is yet another example of familial and societal programming making a woman seemingly incapable of not enabling crappy male behaviour.

I can’t see if OP tells us her child’s sex but this dynamic is so heavily gendered that she would have to be very careful either way. You don’t want a girl picking up on the idea that she has to pander to behaviour like grandma and mum, but nor do you want a boy thinking that he can behave like granddad or uncle Charles with minimal consequences.

Absolutely this!!
Precious time with your babies you will never get back because Sulky Charles cannot even attempt to resolve his conflict with your parents and turns his nose up at Christmas with your other sibling.

Some good ideas, such as inviting over for lunch during the festive season whilst clearly telling him Xmas day is a no go.
I'd also add talking to your mother and DF and getting them to offer an olive branch. DF is also being stupid about it and alienating his son. Also talk to other siblings, its their turn this year. Maybe Charles needs to seek help to stop him falling out with people all the time.

I say this because I know someone who people pleased and ignored their own wants for 25 years and I think Pipsiki is absolutely right about those early Christmases with your young children being really important for you.

Why does your brother's refusal to solve his relationship problems top that? Life is too short for both you and Charles.

Toddler is a reason for this year's limited day, start with that, and then see how much better it is (assuming it is).

What happens to men who spend Christmas day on their own? Do they turn into pumpkins, or what?

A hit squad is sent out to all their female relatives @kingtamponthefurred, who are then rigorously boundary-tested by a crack team dressed in #BeKind tabards. Only the strongest survive, & the rest are taken off to have their patriarchal social constructs reinforced, & allocated at least one man apiece.

It's an ugly business, but somewoman's gotta do it. Can't have men going about being expected to take care of their own needs.

Reflect on their own bad decisions I suppose

OP I don't know why you're getting a hard time from some posters. In think you've made a very perceptive point when you say that all the tough love brigade are also thinking you have to take responsibility, just in the way that they prefer.

Sorry posted by accident... also making choices is all about what is best for you. It's clearly not going to make you happy to leave out Charles completely, so don't do it just because someone anonymous on the net thinks you need to firm up your boundaries. It's lunch on one day, not living with an abusive partner. I don't think your child will learn a bad lesson from this' weakness' of yours, but they might learn about being kind. I imagine all the Mumsnet people with their perfect families who are holding tight to their boundaries and righteously never enabling a selfish person, and I'm glad I'm not spending Christmas with them! (Also, can we not have the sarcasm that minimises men's pain and loneliness. They don't turn into pumpkins, but some fatally self harm; then everyone will no doubt say they wish they'd reached out.)

Agree you need something to break the cycle:
go out for Christmas lunch, invite brother but don’t have him at your house.
go to your sisters for part of the day
book to go away

I can’t see if OP tells us her child’s sex but this dynamic is so heavily gendered that she would have to be very careful either way. You don’t want a girl picking up on the idea that she has to pander to behaviour like grandma and mum, but nor do you want a boy thinking that he can behave like granddad or uncle Charles with minimal consequences.

This is what worries me on this thread, that the people pleasing or stubborn arsehole behaviour will be passed down to the DC.

without having to accommodate Charles’ fussiness

@PoolHill Is he fussy in general or just food fussy?

Well I don’t think my kid is particularly at risk of this. The gender dynamics in my own house are very equal and that’s ultimately where the toddler is going to be learning the most.

My parents live abroad, and are pretty old and infirm so the toddler is actually going to get more grandparent influence from DP’s parents who live around the corner. DP’s mum rules the family, is an MD of a company, did maths at uni and her uxorious husband always always apologises after arguments, because she refuses to back down and goes silent on him. Not saying this is the ideal dynamic either, it’s also quite unequal, but it is basically the reverse of what the toddler might see from my parents or of what gender norms might be.

Ironically this has inspired both DP and I to be strongly against arguments, grudges and silent treatment. Neither of us has ever managed to sustain being upset with the other for longer than a few hours, and we make a point of resolving arguments with talking and hugs. DP does all the washing, I do most of the cooking. We both do the finance, I do the diy and the gardening. And DP earns more but also works a four day week to do a day with the toddler. DP also has a sexist cousin who has said a couple of times that toddler looks like a girl and why is he carrying a rabbit. DP very loudly asked him why it mattered if people did mistake toddler for a girl and that he’d like to know what Dickhead Cousin had against women and rabbits.

I can’t change how my parents are or how DPs are, not can I stop Uncle Charles and Cousin Dickhead from ever seeing the toddler. But I can make sure the grandparents unequal dynamics stop with them and that our kiddo doesn’t grow up in a house where one partner has the power. Yes grumpy uncle Charles will be around a bit, grumbling that the turkey has too many herbs on it, as will Dickhead Cousin but realistically I don’t think a bit of exposure to them is going to turn toddler into a gender stereotype.

Tell him you all have covid ;)

I'd have him this year then tell him in January that you're doing your own thing next year.

That way he has bags of time to make alternative plans.

I think that's saying you don't want him at this stage does put him in a tricky situation as he only has 2 months to make alternative plans.

Do you ever visit your parents at Christmas? I appreciate that you may wish to stay in your own home & build your own traditions but perhaps planning to visit them for Christmas next year as a one-off would be a way to break the cycle?

I used the excuse of a very early morning flight on Boxing Day as an excuse to end a tradition of meeting up with some people on Christmas Day that had run it’s course…

(Also, can we not have the sarcasm that minimises men's pain and loneliness. They don't turn into pumpkins, but some fatally self harm; then everyone will no doubt say they wish they'd reached out.)

When women's emotional & practical labour is viewed as the default free source to be deployed to facilitate men who are alone (you don't know this brother is "lonely") through their own stubborn actions, I am going to reserve the right to be sarcastic about it.

Yes grumpy uncle Charles will be around a bit, grumbling that the turkey has too many herbs on it, as will Dickhead Cousin but realistically I don’t think a bit of exposure to them is going to turn toddler into a gender stereotype.
Given all the points from your latest update I agree OP.
Your DC are more likely to learn good lessons from you & DH, who deal directly with awkward relatives, & compassionately with each other.

Hope you get the optimum resolution this xmas, & even better going forward, allowing yourself to feel no responsibility for your brother's own choices.