To not want to host my brother for Christmas for ever?

[PoolHill]

For the last three years my brother (let’s call him Charles) has come and had Christmas Day with my partner and I at our house. Charles has fallen out with my parents and is no longer speaking to dad so can’t go “home”. We have another sister who also lives locally and has a husband and kids, but Charles would probably be pretty annoyed if I suggested he join other sister for Christmas, as he isn’t as close to her - largely Charles’ fault as he avoids going to visit them, and claims busyness when invited.

He’s similarly quite stubborn about the rift with dad. Initially it was both their faults, dad is now the one sustaining it but equally Charles isn’t making efforts to mend it. Won’t go up and visit parents as is worried it will be awkward etc. Wanting dad to make the first move (which dad should do but just won’t as he’s even more stubborn).

We have a toddler and I just really want to be able to have Christmas Day just us. To spend the morning in pyjamas, cook dinner the way we want it without having to accommodate Charles’ fussiness, cuddle up on the sofa once the toddler is in bed. Partner also wants a ‘just us’ Christmas but understands the situation with Charles.

But I know if I hint that we want to spend Christmas this way Charles will be v upset, and probably spend the day alone out of pride rather than go to our brother, or try to force a reconciliation with dad or find a friend to be with. I love Charles dearly and we are close, and don’t want him to be alone on Christmas. But equally, I feel like this is becoming a pattern now and that we’re going to end up hosting him for the next ten years.

What should I do?

I imagine the mum has had legion conversations with her husband/son, asking them to stop being stubborn gits.

Do you think one more will be the magic wand that solves this family;s entire messed up dynamic? That they will just kiss & make up, & dad will stop being grumpy & brother will stop being manipulative?

These lonely people never seem to want to host though….just go elsewhere for free food and cheer someone else made for them

Here here. I despair of the selfishness I read on here around Christmas. In about 30 years they are all going to be posting about how sad they are to spend Christmas alone !

What selfishness?
OP has had her brother over 3 years in a row.
How many times has HE hosted HER?

Where is your scolding for HIS selfishness @Milkymoo2?

You have two choices:

Grow a backbone and tell you brother he is not invited this year.

Or:

Suck it up, have a Christmas that you don’t want and piss your husband off as well.

What do you want to do?

@KettrickenSmiled

Because the OP - as she has said multiple times - isn’t comfortable just leaving him to fend for himself. Not everyone thinks the same way. This way she can get a break without feeling bad and his family relationships will open up.

This.

Have your brother over. Would your celebration be better knowing he's probably alone?
You haven't actually said what the problem is with him being there, he doesn't sound like he's any bother and if DH doesn't mind then what's the issue?
He likes to be around you and your family, he seems to get on with your kids. My door would always be open for my siblings as long as the rest of my household isn't disturbed by it.

I know a couple that don't want to have to choose between parents at Christmas (they both have separated parents) so always book a holiday which covers Christmas and new year. Last year they were supposed to go skiing, obviously lockdown so couldn't, win win, this year they're going to Antigua.

Just in case you feel like you need an excuse!

Because the OP - as she has said multiple times - isn’t comfortable just leaving him to fend for himself. Not everyone thinks the same way. This way she can get a break without feeling bad and his family relationships will open up.

She also isn't comfortable hosting him again this year @Luredbyapomegranate
Or she wouldn't have started a thread asking advice about how best to go about not hosting him.

Like lots of single parents I've spent Xmas alone - I walked the dog, ate lots of cheese, drank Champagne, had a very selfish day!

Spending the day alone doesn't have to be awful, maybe you're overthinking your brother's reaction.

If you and your husband want a Christmas Day by yourselves I think you should tell your brother - it may not be as big a deal for him as you think.

I'd suggest Boxing Day too - you can tell him that you want to extend the Christmas fun for your son. Or if you feel that he'd be offended and stop talking to you aswell, then as PPs have said, ask him just for dinner, but you'll have the same dilemma next year, and end up having him every year - fine if that's what you want, but it doesn't sound like you do.

that's what i thought too..

I feel exactly the same. I’m an introvert, but I wouldn’t want any of my family alone at Christmas. Last year I hosted sil partner who id never met before. I have loads of time in my pjs with my kids. If you want more time alone just invite him round late afternoon - he doesn’t even sound like a bad guest.

How would Charles react to some blunt honesty? You need to be very careful that you are not enabling some of the more unpleasant elements of his personality.

I totally understand this dilemma OP. I too was stuck in a habit of having to spend every Christmas Day and also Boxing Day with extended family (one of whom could be quite obnoxious and hard work, not to mention the food fads which meant we had to cater for their tastes rather than our own). I longed for a quiet Christmas with just my husband and children but was too afraid of hurting anyone's feelings to actually do anything about it. Covid released us from this cycle and we got a taste of just how less stressful Christmas could be. Since then, we have simply stated that we are having a quiet family Christmas but we get together on another day over the holiday period. I wish I'd done it sooner. The children are happier too and have said that they prefer the new arrangement. Instead of absolutely dreading Christmas, I now look forward to it and enjoy it. Perhaps your brother could join you for a Christmas Eve lunch instead?

Yes. What’s your point?

A way to not host him is to ask her sister to.

She isn’t going to tell him to just sort himself out. She’s been clear about that.

People are different - there is no point you giving the OP advice she won’t follow. It’s a waste of her time and yours.

“…Or you and your mother have taken the stereotypically female role of placating stubborn toxic men, trying desperately not to upset them and excusing their poor behaviour to your own detriment.”

Yep agreed. People pleasers are so infuriating because they enable and pander to the CFs and selfish dicks of the world. I mean, God forbid a grown adult male would have to be ‘upset’ and take responsibility for himself. 🙄

Tell him you are planning to go to the in laws for xmas

She doesn't have to take my advice, & it's unlikely she will, as shes entrenched in her family's dynamic where the men are grumpy, manipulative & selfish, & the womens' role is to pander & appease.

Hence it would make perfect sense, in her family, to foist this on her sister.

But OP has said she won't even do that, as she's scared it will "upset" her brother because he prefers her over their sister.
So by your reckoning, you shouldn't have given that advice, because she won't take it?!

By mine, you are at liberty to advise anything you see fit.

Also - discussion forums often evolve into being broader than the OP. The issues discussed often affect PP too, so that more than just the OP can choose from any advice that might apply to them, if they think it's useful.

I never understand this. Why lie? You then have to make stuff up in case you’re asked - it implicates others - and if you get caught out in a lie it just makes everything worse. It’s such an emotionally immature thing for adults to do. She just has to be a grown up and state what is happening in her own life on her own terms. He can take responsibility for himself and his emotions. He’ll survive.

I think it's time to break the cycle - tell him you're doing something different for christmas this year (seeing distant family, visiting your DH's family, whatever) but would love to see in the new year with him. If he says 'but I always spend it with you', just repeat you're doing something different and will see him on x date for second xmas.

Be strong! And tell him now so he's got time to plan ahead too. Hi brother, just to let you know xmas is going to be a bit different this year...

@PoolHill - same for you. Explain you want family time while your little one is still little, and set an alternative date. Tell him now rather than spring it on him.

A few people calling Charles selfish, but if he's never been told that you'd rather he wasn't there, then presumably he just thinks he's welcome and having a nice day with his sister and her family? You said yourself that you love him and are close, so it doesn't sound like it's a strained relationship between you two, or that he's a particularly bad guest.

He might well be sad to spend Christmas alone if he feels that's his next most viable option, but he'd probably be more sad know that you considered his presence an inconvenience, especially to the extent that you were complaining about him on an Internet forum for wanting to spend time with you. How hurt would you feel if the roles were reversed and you found that out!?

It's not clear what him being there is stopping you doing, presumably as your brother he's seen you in PJs before!? You could do that without him on Boxing Day if he disrupts it so much...

There is lots of pressure to be around family on Christmas day, and if he's got issues in other family relationships that's sure to be back of mind more so than on other occasions. So while he's not your responsibility, and you shouldn't have to have him if you don't want him there, it does seem very anti-Christmas spirit to uninvite him. You say you fear you'll have to host him forever, but your family aren't always around forever... if something happened to him, you might regret excluding him and wish for the chance to have him back!

I understand OP, it would hurt his feelings and you love him, he’s your brother.

It is also ok to want to have some Christmases with just you, your husband, and your child. And, your brother should be thoughtful enough to realize that.

This is what I would do. You make yourself a less attractive option for Christmas, and your sister a more attractive option.

Ask your sister to invite your brother to Christmas via text with the suggestion they watch a film he would like, for instance. Have her entice him with whatever else would make him feel very comfortable. Tell her you feel he needs time with her, and find out when she sends text. Make it all very natural, because really, he does need to start having meaningful relationships with the rest of his family again.

On the heels of that text, you call your brother and say you hope he doesn’t mind to help with a big project when he arrives on Christmas Day. Make it a very dreadful undertaking. Don’t give him time to reply, say you have to get off phone, toddler needs you.

(Hopefully), your brother will make his excuses, you haven’t hurt his feelings, in fact he may worry that he’s hurting your feelings, he will spend time getting closer to his other sister, and your husband gets a Christmas with his own little family, and you can too—there’s nothing wrong with that!

If that doesn’t work, backup plan is what another poster suggested, tell him you’re going to your in-laws.

I too spent so many Christmases, but with in-laws who didn’t even like me, just because they demanded it. I wish I’d done sooner what was best for me, my husband, and child.

How old is your brother? Does he live alone?

What do you actually want the most? A Christmas day for three or just a Christmas morning for three but willing to have a Christmas afternoon/dinner for four? Break it down more to see what you are willing to do for Charles.

You sound a bit like the parents who want to protect their children from everything hard. And their children never learn resilience and adult responsibility. I know a few of these. I think you need to reset the relationship to an adult one where you don’t make the hard things go away so he doesn’t have to learn to confront them.
think about it this way- you love him. You think he loves you. Does he dive in front of problems or challenges in your life to save you from them? Or is that one way? Do you still love him even though he doesn’t protect you from life? Yes you do. Do you think less of him for not doing this for you, or resent it? No, you don’t. So why do you accept and expect that he will if you don’t do these things for him? Reset the relationship to one of mutual love, support and respect. One Christmas alone if he chooses to do that will not hurt him, maybe it will make him confront hard things, maybe it will make him more appreciative of others. Or maybe he will love it. And won’t you feel a numpty if he does!

id ask him around in the days before or after Christmas because I too value the people I care about, I just also believe in adult relationships and we each have our own agency.

I love my single brother and he'd be welcome at mine for Christmas every year. For me, it's a time for family and he detracts nothing from the little family I made for myself. I can't imagine telling him I didn't want him there, but that said, you don't want yours there so it's a different situation.