"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

Yeah this is nice and stuff but we have a Politics forum on Mumsnet that isn’t a graveyard with plenty of recent posts

YABU

You think Brexit caused this? It’s not even been 3 years since we left. The effects of Brexit are yet to come.

What caused this issue is 25 years of economic mismanagement started by nu Labour, continued by the Tories. One problems underlines them all - low productivity. And that is because we have a low wage economy. And that is because since the tax credits were introduced, employers have been subsidized by the taxpayer topping up low wages. It means businesses have no incentive to automate. Why automate when you can get cheap labour by the truckload. Over time, this reduces investment into the economy and the low wage, low productivity cycle gets worse.

It can all be traced back to tax credits. A policy that has caused structural rot to the economy of this country.

I agree tax credits were disastrous, but only because in the desire to lift up poorer households (mainly headed by women) the Labour government failed to face down shitty employers driving down wages in the first place.

Not just Brexit, we've had 12 years of austerity. The country is now so sickly that the average age on death is falling - 200 years of progress undone. A sick population is not going to be a well off one.

I understand and agree regarding wages, but fundamentally the UK just doesn't make anything anymore. And yes, Brexit was the nail in the coffin on the one thing left- the finance sector.

And sorry about putting this in AIBU, geesh

Ignore them. They just want it hidden away.

It's everyone's fault. People blaming the Tories and saying everything will be better under Labour are living in denial. As are those blaming Labour, as are those blaming politicians in general. No-one wants to work hard for a living, no-one wants to work in manufacturing making things that people want. People look at working in finance or the "creative" sector as being higher status than wearing overalls and carrying a lunchbox to work. It's not unique to this country but the class system which still persists here has made things worse.

Taking the biggest European countries as our peer group, Britain has per-capita GDP higher than France, Italy and Spain, but behind Germany.

So I think the claim is false.

Though the figures I've googled were 2017 ones, so it could have changed since then.

The number one reason is the cost of housing. Rental or buying. The lack of affordable housing isn't by accident it has been a way of ensuring the voting majority vote for whoever makes sure their nest egg goes up in value. Young (renters) people hardly vote compared to older people (mortgage owners). Older people especially homeowners are proportionately right wing so the obvious thing to do as a party who wants votes is to ensure that house prices keep on rising. This keeps the votes coming to the party doing that BUT fucks up the poorer younger voters. However they tend not to vote or vote leftwing so who gives a fuck.

This won't go well because the truth hurts! 😆

The number one reason is the cost of housing. Rental or buying.

yep & the wage stagnation & then they wonder why productivity is so bad

Considering the uk is still one of the top manufacturing countries, of course we still make things. Just not lots of cheap tat!

"It can all be traced back to tax credits. A policy that has caused structural rot to the economy of this country."

Then you can blame the Conservative Heath Government in the 70s, who introduced the original tax credits, then called Family Income Support.

In 1986, it was changed to Family Credit (again, by a Conservative Government).
Labour repackaged it as Working Family Tax Credit, then it became simply Tax Credits, before the Conservatives replaced it with UC.

Agree with Florenz - it's not just one simple reason. Also agree that tax credits were disastrous. Well intentioned, but ultimately disastrous, in facilitating a low wage economy where employees are topped up by the tax payer rather than being paid a decent wage by the employer. Tax credits have also encouraged people to game the system; working just enough hours to be eligible and disincentivised from working more. I remember a time when if you needed to earn more to pay the bills, you worked more hours, took on a second job if necessary or went for a higher earning role. There just wasn't an option to play the system like there is now. And yes, the fact that so many of the totally necessary jobs - social care, manual labour - are not given the recognition and remuneration they should be.

i was talking to DH tonight and we were wondering whether brexit/covid/tories aside, first world countries have had their moment and are now in decline generally. We can’t make money through robbing poorer countries anymore, and don’t have a whole lot to offer ourselves

Depends on whether you look at total GDP or per capita GDP

Top 10 Richest Countries in Europe by total 2020 GDP (current US$ - World Bank)
Germany - $3.8 trillion
United Kingdom - $2.7 trillion
France - $2.6 trillion
Italy - $1.9 trillion
Russia* - $1.5 trillion
Spain - $1.3 trillion
Netherlands - $913.8 billion
Switzerland - $752.2 billion
Turkey - $720.1 billion
Poland - $594.2 billion

Top 10 Richest Countries in Europe by 2020 GDP per capita (current US$ - World Bank)
Monaco - $190,513
Liechtenstein - $180,367
Luxembourg - $115,874
Switzerland - $87,097
Ireland - $85,268
Norway - $67,390
Denmark - $61,063
Iceland - $59,270
Netherlands - $52,397
Sweden - $52,259

Top 10 Richest Countries in Europe by 2020 GNI per capita (Atlas Method, current US$ - World Bank)
Liechtenstein - $117,740
Switzerland - $84,310
Norway - $78,180
Luxembourg - $73,500
Ireland - $64,150
Denmark - $63,070
Iceland - $62,420
Sweden - $54,060
Netherlands - $51,060
Finland - $49,700

I'm sure we'll find somewhere to plunder 😂

Imma gonna to move to Liechtenstein. Where is it exactly? ✈

Good article, depressingly true

UC has been worse than previous versions mentioned as it rolled up everything and put a limit on what lower earners 'deserved'. C4 or BBC had very good documentaries about the social devastation in the first year.
Rat race to the bottom since, and Brexit has cost so much to the economy and undone so much progression.

I don't know what the solution to this is though. Brexit sure isn't helping. But are we too proud to hold our hands up and say 'We got this one wrong'?

I remember crying watching this when everyone in the EU bit us adieu!

Is there any consolation in the fact at a lot of those languages literally translate to 'until we meet again'? 😂

We could go back, no shame, and say 'ah we only joking there lads, we'd never leave you!'

Mind you, the Spanish Adios was possibly the most apt in hindsight. It translates to 'Go with God cos you're going to need him '