"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

I assume the favourable corporate tax system plays a role?

I’m guessing many who argue in favour of the article in the op wouldn’t want this here

MarshaBradyo
I assume the favourable corporate tax system plays a role?

Undoubtedly.

Nah. It's the climate.

I doubt matching corporate tax rates would go down well with some voters. So whilst it’s look at how great that is the reality is it would be a Cons policy to do it and it wouldn’t be appreciated.

Not for the UK, since 2016, had the lowest CT rate in the G7.... and 4th lowest in G20, just 2% above Singapore... but we don't seem to have been able to take adv of that... why?
Various reasons..in no particular order - not in EU/SM, bad FTA with EU, viewed as relatively politically unstable, poorly educated/low skilled workforce, poor public services - esp health and rail, road congestion.

imho wouldn't matter if UK had 10% CT rate, there are too many other issues... which is why Sunak has recognised we need to address these first, meanwhile up CT.

Ponkyandthebrain
In 2016 Britain Had a GDP that was 90% of Germany. Now it’s 70%

"Nonsense" according to Jonathan Portes (Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the School of Politics & Economics of King's College, London and a senior fellow at UK in a Changing Europe). NB Portes is very much a Remain supporting economist and not a Brexiteer in the slightest.

Jonathan Portes
@ jdportes

I see Clare Foges @ thetimes is repeating
@ MarkJCarney's zombie statistic.

"But the fact is that in 2016 the British economy was 90 per cent the size of Germany’s, and now it is less than 70 per cent."

For the umpteenth time, this is nonsense

Tom Norman
@ jdportes @ thetimes and @ MarkJCarney
From http ://tradingeconomics.com (source World Bank) I have UK GDP per capita PPP in 2016 at 88% of Germany's and in 2022 86%. Storm in a teetasse.

@ jdportes
@ plaste @ thetimes and @ MarkJCarney
yes, that sounds right. That's not nothing! UK has underperformed, in part because of Brexit. That's not controversial. But let's get the facts right

*From http ://tradingeconomics.com (source World Bank) I have UK GDP per capita PPP in 2016 at 88% of Germany's and in 2022 86%. Storm in a teetasse(

Can both be true?

GDP vs GDP per capita

And I guess GDP is measured in dollars - so that could be a factor

German GDP 2016 - $US 3469.85 billion
German GDP 2021 $4223 billion

UK GDP 2016 - $2722 billion (78% of Germany)
UK GDP 2021 - $3187 billion (75% of Germany)

tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp

yes, that sounds right. That's not nothing! UK has underperformed, in part because of Brexit. That's not controversial. But let's get the facts right

Did you mean to post that? Brexit causing the UK to underperform?

cakeorwine
Can both be true?

Pass.
A typo from Tom Norman??

Anyway, Chris Giles (economics editor for the Financial Times) also agrees that
Mark Carney's statistic is "nonsense".

As Jonathan says - it’s nonsense

And I guess GDP is measured in dollars

Measured in the currency of the country in question and then converted to dollars. Mark Carney appears to have made a hash of dates and exchange rates.

Did you mean to post that?

Yes - of course. There was certainly Brexit uncertainty - I can't argue with that - and the economist is very pro-Remain as I pointed out in my previous post.

Most economists were/are pro-Remain, the same way as most oncologists are anti-smoking. They know how damaging it is.

Most economists were/are pro-Remain, the same way as most oncologists are anti-smoking. They know how damaging it is

Jeremy Corbyn managed to find a long list of economists who thought his 2019 manifesto was "fiscally responsible" - that doesn't mean they were right;

www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto-what-economy-needs

Apologies - that was the 2017 link.

You do appear to be stuck in the internet of yore. Perhaps you could consider upgrading the internet to Version 2022?

Ponkyandthebrain
In 2016 Britain

Alexandra2001
Not for the UK, since 2016

Alas, I think you are boring TheNosehasit - perhaps you should consider upgrading your internet to Version 2022 as requested?

TheNosehasit

Brace yourself - extract from the op's link coming up (perhaps have a lie down after reading it) ...

After World War II, Britain’s economy grew slower than those of much of continental Europe. By the 1970s, the Brits were having a national debate about why they were falling behind and how the former empire had become a relatively insular and sleepy economy. Under Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s, markets were deregulated, unions were smashed, and the financial sector emerged as a jewel of the British economy. Thatcher’s injection of neoliberalism had many complicated knock-on effects, but from the 1990s into the 2000s, the British economy roared ahead, with London’s financial boom leading the way. Britain, which got rich as the world’s factory in the 19th century, had become the world’s banker by the 21st.
When the global financial crisis hit in 2008...

This article is poorly researched trash but points for the robot count reference, that's a new one. The Atlantic is joining the left wing US trend for rubbishing the UK and quotes a left wing Irish journo for some real balance, yeah, maybe not. That's a no from me.

the British economy roared ahead, with London’s financial boom leading the way

And leaving much of the UK behind.

You do know some of the reasons that people voted for Brexit?

Why would the nationality of the journalist he quoted bother you? Is it significant?

It's not The Atlantic or the left or even people who hate the UK. The Times ran a similar article recently.

The UK has been damaged and diminished by a series of failed Tory experiments that have brought us to the brink of bankruptcy. Our friends abroad are watching with dismay and bafflement. But we are the ones suffering, with no plan in sight to turn our fortunes around.

Watching this Economist explain the situation very well 'The Plan is to Make You Poorer' - an ex city trader is terrified about the future for poor AND middle earners:

Hearing an interview the other day re being doomed because Brexit needs a low tax situation to work my top line view has changed,

Labour and Brexit won’t work, Sunak has a Brexit view which he can explain.

Labour should forget the petty policies that tinker round the edges and sell the single market and Cons should explain why Brexit is better.

Trouble is given PMQs the other day Labour won’t do it.

The Tories should Get Brexit Done in the best way possible for the UK, so whoever comes next isn't left with this wholly Conservative created shitshow.

Who was this interview with?

I'm pretty sure that it's done (or are we still waiting for some bells to chime or something?).