"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

We could scare him away with a bit of willy waving?

So did I.
It’s not even the prosperity, though I mind that - it’s that I really believe in the project of the EU. Of course it has its faults, but overall I think it’s a force for good.

Top 10 Richest Countries in Europe by 2020 GNI per capita (Atlas Method, current US$ - World Bank)
Liechtenstein - $117,740 Tax haven
Switzerland - $84,310 Commodities, Food, Pharma, Engineering, Banking
Norway - $78,180 Energy
Luxembourg - $73,500 Tax haven
Ireland - $64,150 Tax haven
Denmark - $63,070 Shipping, Brewing, Food, Engineering
Iceland - $62,420 Energy
Sweden - $54,060 Automotive, Telecoms, Retail, Engineering
Netherlands - $51,060 Tax haven - Govt currently trying to kill agriculture
Finland - $49,700 Energy, Engineering, Pulp and Paper

The UK $39,970 is good at pretty well everything that 'richer' countries excel at, but our civil service does go out of its way to self-harm. Why so many BMW police cars rather than Nissan, Toyota or Vauxhall, why not support more UK manufacturers?

The author pretty much nailed it. Austerity followed by a rush job Brexit that no one had a plan for left us so weakened. The fact is that Brexit still isn't done and continues to negatively impact us as an investment opportunity.

As does our political instability. The UK is now seen as a basket case and the reason? Twelve years of Tory incompetence, arrogance and corruption.

Yes they may well get a shock but I think many Tory voters with mortgages have lost trust in the party of 'fiscal responsibility' and won't come out to vote for Tories again in 2024 regardless. So it might all be too little even if Rishi does help now.

£700..ouch! There has been so much damage done to the economy over consecutive years that even if Tories are out at the next GE, any party coming in ie. Labour will have a huge job on it's hands to turn things around.

Especially since the BMWs they're buying seem to implode.

www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2022/02/uk-based-bmw-police-cars-banned-from-pursuits/

yep & the wage stagnation & then they wonder why productivity is so bad

The wage stagnation is bad - austerity under Cameron and Osborne - began this decline as growth was sluggish. It’s economics 101 to not make cuts when coming out of recession but Cameron and a very willing media pushed for austerity. I think though a major reason for poor productivity in the U.K. is due to lack of investment by businesses. CEO’s funnel it to shareholders rather than capital investment.

In 2016 Britain Had a GDP that was 90% of Germany. Now it’s 70%. Brexit making us poorer. The conservative government have been in power that entire time with a mandate to make Brexit work and it hasn’t. People who demanded it have to trot out this ‘we’re just not doing it right’ line because the only other thing to say is that it was a stupid idea. Why would you leave the largest trading organisation in the world on your doorstep and think it’s not going to make you poorer.

The reality is that in several years time we will end rejoining the single market on significantly worse terms because we would still be better off.

Austerity, over reliance on London to power the rest of the country, no investment in the advancement of our economy so no new industry and technology, stale and disproven theory of deregulation and low tax trickle down economics and a big fat stupid Brexit. Pretty good but bleak analysis

think though a major reason for poor productivity in the U.K. is due to lack of investment by businesses. CEO’s funnel it to shareholders rather than capital investment.

Agree, the gov hasn't invested in the people & businesses haven't invested either.

Oh her we go again, another Brexit-bashing thread.

Can't Remoaners accept that they lost and just move on ??🙄

OK, I have 2022 figures from Wikipedia. The only thing that has change is that we've fallen from being a very tiny amount ahead of France to a very tiny amount behind.

(These figures are per capita, as I said originally.)

It's still not true that Britain is "one of the poorest countries in Europe".

Why would people accept the damage its done and will continue to do to the country? What exactly is it that you think you've won?
How do you feel about being lied to that we could remain in the single market and it would benefit the NHS? Remainers didn't believe it but brexiters did.

To put it in context, the 2022 figures, in USD and rounded, are

Germany 64K
France 56K
UK 56K
Italy 51K
Spain 47K

Those are IMF numbers. Wikipedia also has World Bank and CIA numbers, which I haven't looked at.

This !
People want to work less and have everything handed to them.

And the elephant in the room, high amounts of unsecured debt.
Not one poverty thread has mentioned debt, its always someone else's fault.

Why would people accept the damage its done and will continue to do to the country?

What is the benefit of the alternative? Do you get something out of making yourself and everyone else miserable by spending your time moaning, instead of using it constructively?

Everyone lost

It seems that you are saying that if I suddenly decide, at this moment in time, to become a leaver instead of a remainer, Brexit will become a good thing? A kind of Shrodinger's Brexit?

As a brit currently living outside the UK looking in, I'd say Britain's biggest problem is the lying and the people lapping up the lies. You can't fix a problem if you refuse to even acknowledge that it exists or be honest about the causes.

Eg Horrendous backlogs in the NHS and no GP appointments for months caused by global pandemic? So why aren't other countries suffering the same? I know the government keep lying and saying they are, but it's just not true. But until they're honest nothing will change

That's the gist of it @Twillow. If Brexit isn't working for you, you're just not Beleaving hard enough.🙄 It's a cult.

Oh the fact that brexit failed is due to people not "getting behind it"

?

You fucked up and now want the people who told you not to do it to clear up your mess

I don't think they do want the people who told them Brexit would be a disaster to clear up the mess (the mess is too big, can't be cleared anyway). They want Remainers to cheer the mess, to celebrate how great the mess is and 'get behind'the mess.

it is simply not true that UK is one of poorest countries in Europe it is one of the richest maybe not the richest but certainly in top third, if you read any media you will realise that there is huge areas of severe deprivation in France Italy and Spain and pockets even within Scandinavia netherlands etc as well as central Europe
Why did Macron come so close to losing to le Pen because of the French equivalent of the blue/ red wall huge swathes of the population outside of paris feeling they are in forgotten backwaters and no one cares... they are right they don't; it is not so much that they wanted Le Pen or in the UK Boris but they were fed up of the same lies from establishment figures various shades of establishment fugures have been tried for 50+ years so people want something different rather than moving from slightly blue to slightly red and back again where everything benefits the centralised city dweller be it London Paris Madrid or Munich, Rome MIlan Edinburgh Brussels etc
People in the Highlands of Scotland feel ignored by Edinburgh, people in fishing villages in Brittainy feel ignored by Paris etc

Here's an idea, we could join the single market? Economists (I know, experts, who needs them) seem to agree that that would immediately improve things.
Of course Leave voters would never allow that to happen, they would rather fuck up the peace in NI and see blood on the street there than join the SM.