"How the UK became one of the poorest countries in Europe"

[user1471452428]

www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/10/uk-economy-disaster-degrowth-brexit/671847/

Article in The Atlantic. When people post about declining living standards, they're often shouted down- but I think it's pretty clear that it is real and here to stay.

@BerriesOnTop - I hate to put it so baldfaced, but I’m so tired of enemies of Europe and the UK spouting their propaganda. You say you are from China, originally - more allied to Russia than the US or Europe and ruled by people so incapable of losing face that they are still inflicting zero covid and extreme paranoia on their population. Rather that than admit their vaccines don’t work and they have no clue how to get out of a mess of their own making.

I guess invading Taiwan might provide a useful distraction.

I’m no fan of Xi, and I know it’s economically destructive policy that just saves his face. I totally agree with what you say about it but … it has nothing to do with this thread

@BerriesOnTop - it has plenty to do with this thread, as another myopic strategy of the entire world was to rely too much on China to make stuff for it, meaning China’s controlling and weird behaviour has a negative impact on us all.

And what in earth is your point about Russian commodities. Why would green propaganda make Europe buy more Russian commodities?

The most obvious is that as you shift to green energy, your demand for natural gas goes up as you need it for when the wind isn’t blowing/sun not shining. Particularly if you are swapping from coal due to air pollution concerns

also, Europe buys other things like fertiliser, coal, wood pellets

So, it buys coal to get away from coal?! If you ask me, the lesson learned is that more effort should have been made to get away from fossil fuels sooner - look at the mess in the Middle East; the behaviour of Russia; the smogs in China and India; the climate crisis. None of this is Russian propaganda, it’s present fact. Countries with natural resources will always have a dangerous bargaining chip and often these countries are run by rather unpleasant dictatorships (in all but name) which are, apparently, willing to utterly destroy themselves and every country around them in order to try and get their way.

the lesson learned is that more effort should have been made to get away from fossil fuels sooner

ok but the thing is, you can’t. Germany ended up in the situation it is in because it tried to go green—but you still need natural gas peaker plants to keep up the illusion.

Unless you have hydro or a nuclear fleet, having to use lots of fossil fuels is just the reality of things. And even hydro or nuclear just gets at electricity generation, you still need fossil fuels for loads of other things.

either EU politicians are really poorly informed or they don’t tell their voters the truth. I’d say it’s the former, because they haven’t even prepared for these scenarios.

@BerriesOnTop - or they naively assumed that if you need a commodity and pay for it, you get it in a thing called mutually beneficial trade, rather than having it deliberately ignited for no gain whatsoever to anyone. Unfortunately, countries protecting themselves from the insanity of those who would rather the entire world were destroyed than that they do not get their way, requires the scaling back of global trade and the waging of constant wars and destruction. You can hardly argue it was wrong of the UK to get cold feet over China being involved in the building of nuclear power stations, for example, when China is currently showing just how despotic its leadership actually is.

It has everything to do with the fact that you're in no position to preach.

and you have prepared how?

Because all I see from here is some muppet with an axe to grind.

Cheers! 👊

You forgot the main bit.
While stripping their own people bare and working them to the bone.

The UK is an island with a lot of wind. 🌂

It is @TheNoseHasit, but the wind doesn't blow all the time. However the tides do rise and fall predictably, approximately every six hours around the 20K miles of the UK's coastline. So why on earth is tidal powergen not taken more seriously?

@XingMing However the tides do rise and fall predictably, approximately every six hours around the 20K miles of the UK's coastline. So why on earth is tidal powergen not taken more seriously?

You are correct in saying the tides are predictable but they are not consistent in height.
They vary according to the phases of the moon and also the seasons.
Ypour question is answered here - climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/why-dont-we-use-tidal-power-more

Duhhh... anyone who lives on the coast or an estuary knows that tides ebb and fall and that there are spring and neap tides, and ALSO knows that the pattern and times can be predicted quite reliably for hundreds if not thousands of years in advance. And while I thank you for the patronising link, I did not ASK any questions at all. I posted a statement @PandorasSuitcase

"Oh here we go again, another Brexit-bashing thread."

The national debt is now over 100% the size of the economy and we will be running a huge budget deficit for many years to come, in which more goes out than comes in. And the cost of interest payments on our debt, before we pay back a penny, is now north of £80 billion a year - that’s more than the defence budget.
Inflation is running at over 10%, which is bad news for everyone, because it simply reduces the value of money and with the main lever to control it being raised interest rates, it means the cost of our mortgages, loans and credit cards goes up as well.
Bitter Remainers will have you believe this is all down to our decision to leave the European Union, which doesn’t explain raging inflation and recession on the Continent. I’m not sure Germany had Brexit too did they?
The truth is that for decades we have lived beyond our means. Government after government has resisted balancing the books and achieving a level of public expenditure, that actually equates with our income, like you and I have to do at home and businesses have to do in the office.
The international bond markets, upon whose largesse we relied for too long, have gun to our head. Even a future Labour government in the pockets of the unions will not be able to spend with abandon as now it's international financiers who run this country, not the government.

@XingMing So why on earth is tidal powergen not taken more seriously?

I'm not sure what your issue is but ^^ this looks like a question to me ?

It’s a straw man argument to claim Remainers blame everything on Brexit. Brexit exacerbates existing problems, it didn’t cause them.

And, btw, Germany did have Brexit too. Germany is part of the EU and Brexit was about the EU and the UK going separate ways. It’s a bit weird to claim only the UK had Brexit.

Liz Truss exacerbated existing problems, too. She didn’t actually cause them, it’s just her cure was as stupid as Brexit 🤣.

@Walkaround www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/18/trussonomics-labour-market-public-spending

🤔

@Ladyinpuce - as you accurately identified, it’s international financiers who run the country, hence Liz Truss was stupid, as she had fair warning of their opinions. The time to spend more was pre-Covid, not now, when the entire world is going through a period of massive inflation. There is a right time to do something and a wrong time and the UK has invariably chosen the wrong time every time for a few decades, now.

Actually, no, it is time to spend now, but while taxing appropriately and spending wisely.

Unfortunately, years of austerity up to now has run the country down so much that vast sums are needed just to shore things up rather than to be able to focus on growth.