Page 40 | Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

tamarvin · 2022-10-25T17:53:25+00:00

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m). So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping. From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents. My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet. I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond. Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double. I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise. My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

MissTinkerBella · 28/10/2022 11:04

You think he should share with his daughter?

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 28/10/2022 11:10

tamarvin · 27/10/2022 21:34

Just a little update for anyone interested

I talked to my sister and her husband about the situation. I told them the arrangement is not working out and that they could only stay until January. They were not happy with me changing our agreement, but that's not unexpected. Hopefully when the time comes everything will go smoothly. I am going to write a written notice to give to them in case.

I also suggested that they try sleeping in the living room themselves and give their daughter the spare room or my sister and her daughter share the bedroom and her husband sleeps in the living room with nephew. The main issue they have with those options is that my sister's husband has a bad back and would be unable to sleep on a sofa or inflatable mattress without it causing him physical pain.

My sister has accepted that I am not going to force my daughter to share her bedroom and is looking to see if she can find some cheap partitions that might be more private than curtains.

They can take a written notice to the council nearer the time as proof they will be homeless from that date. This could give them more priority, though they may well have to accept temporary accommodation which isn't very suitable to their needs.

angela99999 · 28/10/2022 11:17

So relieved to hear that you've taken this step, it's best from your point of view but also (hopefully) from theirs as it will get them re-housed faster. Be prepared for some attempts from them to "just stay a few more days" though.

Battyfumworts · 28/10/2022 11:21

Wow, some of the suggestions on here are absurd.

You sound very caring OP, but it is your family home and you’ve already been more than accommodating. As someone who lost a parent at a young age, 6 years might not be short, but it’s also not that long really. Your extended family should be more considerate of that.

I hope everything goes well for you moving forward

JudgeJ · 28/10/2022 11:35

Belinda500 · 28/10/2022 03:12

Oh please, agency? I bet you walk past people living on the streets and lecture them about their 'agency'. This family may become homeless so you're almost there!

The nonsense here, OP is the next Mother Theresa?? Has England taken in anyone fleeing Ukraine...oh that's right Priti Patel told them they'll have to apply like everyone else, wait at the border, wait your turn, know your place.

Yes OP has been generous enough to take his FAMILY in because they are actually HOMELESS. But the TEENAGE daughter has to sleep on the couch where anyone can walk in on her. But I suppose she deserves it because she's poor.

Honestly, perhaps we should bring back workhouses so families don't have to put up with their poor relatives.

Hope that hair shirt isn't too itchy!

BitossiBlues · 28/10/2022 11:37

I think the sister is well aware that council housing is a bit of a pipe dream, and that the temporary accommodation will be 100 x worse than the current situation.

Her alternatives are for her and her husband to get their shit together, work and save and get a private rental or stay put. Clearly the latter option is a whole lot easier for them, and if she wants to take the situation to the next level of permanent residency, moving their daughter in to the OP's daughter's room is the key to this, as it takes the relationship from sofa surfing to house share. The husband's "bad back" as a reason the adults can't sleep downstairs is a red herring - a decent and supportive fold up bed/futon can be purchased for the living room, if they were serious about their daughter's temporary lack of privacy and thinking about what's best for her and OP's family without an ulterior motive.

They are 5 (including dominant sister and niece) to the OP's 3 (including timid daughter), OP does not have a wife to back him up and defend their territory, and presumably is at work for a lot of the time the OP's children are at home and potentially being bossed around by the new "matriarch" of the household. I can see how the OP could get sucked into agreeing to a permanent arrangement through being guilt tripped and lacking another adult to back him up on this. I hope he is able to stick to his generous compromise of letting these guests have until January to find something else, and that these guests respect this deadline and the OP's boundaries, and make some arrangements to find alternative accommodation. I am shocked at the demands they have been making of the OP and his children, but I am guessing lack of awareness and a deep sense of entitlement may be how they have ended up in the situation they are in in the first place.

Schnooze · 28/10/2022 11:41

BitossiBlues · 28/10/2022 11:37

I think the sister is well aware that council housing is a bit of a pipe dream, and that the temporary accommodation will be 100 x worse than the current situation.

Her alternatives are for her and her husband to get their shit together, work and save and get a private rental or stay put. Clearly the latter option is a whole lot easier for them, and if she wants to take the situation to the next level of permanent residency, moving their daughter in to the OP's daughter's room is the key to this, as it takes the relationship from sofa surfing to house share. The husband's "bad back" as a reason the adults can't sleep downstairs is a red herring - a decent and supportive fold up bed/futon can be purchased for the living room, if they were serious about their daughter's temporary lack of privacy and thinking about what's best for her and OP's family without an ulterior motive.

They are 5 (including dominant sister and niece) to the OP's 3 (including timid daughter), OP does not have a wife to back him up and defend their territory, and presumably is at work for a lot of the time the OP's children are at home and potentially being bossed around by the new "matriarch" of the household. I can see how the OP could get sucked into agreeing to a permanent arrangement through being guilt tripped and lacking another adult to back him up on this. I hope he is able to stick to his generous compromise of letting these guests have until January to find something else, and that these guests respect this deadline and the OP's boundaries, and make some arrangements to find alternative accommodation. I am shocked at the demands they have been making of the OP and his children, but I am guessing lack of awareness and a deep sense of entitlement may be how they have ended up in the situation they are in in the first place.

Unfortunately I think there is a lot of truth in this.

bewarethetides · 28/10/2022 11:44

@BitossiBlues has probably described the situation quite accurately at a lot of levels. If OP's sister/partner were truly grateful to be there, they wouldn't be trying to run roughshod over OP's daughter and would give up the room they're using if this is really about their own daughter's need for privacy. Wouldn't most parents put their child first? But here they are, not doing that, and pushing for someone else (OP and his daughter) to do so.

I think OP is going to have a fight on his hand to get them out.

bellabasset · 28/10/2022 11:49

The housing situation in this country is dire and living in a holiday destination you see the availability of affordable privately rented housing is non existent.

OP tried to help his sister and her family but a year is a long time and the reality is that the parents and 5 year old need to occupy the bedroom. But instead of trying to work out a solution for the dd she's virtually demanded that her niece should share. Then she's interfering in OP taking out his dcs for a meal instead of arranging a special meal for her family.

Schnooze · 28/10/2022 11:50

confuddledDOTcom · 28/10/2022 10:17

It's been a long time since I posted here although I sometimes watch but I wanted to come in on this one.

I am homeless, so certainly not middle class and never have been, so I hope I'm allowed an opinion without being screamed at. I am technically a Women's Aid resident but they didn't have room for my wheelchair so I ended up with the council.

I had started off staying with a partner (not the one that was abusive and I didn't tell the council I am non-monogamous because that would confused issues) but whilst I was technically sofa surfing, even though it was in a flat with no lift so I had issues using my wheelchair, I was not a priority for the council in fact they removed me from the list altogether. As hard as it was my partner had to take me to my parents house so I could call WA and declare homeless. He told me leaving the hotel that night he had to pullover and cry. That was the best hotel I stayed in, I've had 3 and trust me hotel is a euphemism, these are not nice places. I'm now in dispersed accommodation and probably have another 10 years here because I'm too young to be level 2 disabled.

Whilst you are housing them the council don't care and you will continue to have these issues. Yes it will be horrible for them, they'll be sharing a single room in a hotel and maybe a kitchen with twenty other families. All of them are currently worse off than your sister, all of them a higher priority. Why should your sister get a pass on the list? Don't get me wrong, I think they're evil places and wouldn't wish them on anyone but whilst there are people there they get priority. Homelessness is in dire numbers right now. You have saved them from it at the cost of lengthening their homelessness.

What the answers are for your living situation is kind of irrelevant, it's a mess and always will be whilst you live together. They are not respecting your home, your children, your family or their own situation. Your children don't need to be forced to give up their space if they don't need to. If they care so much about their daughter's privacy they'd swap (trust me, hotel beds aren't going to be fun and the bed here has put me in hospital, I'm not saying that lightly). You aren't responsible for paying for them all to eat out, for including them on family activities nor should you give it up. Your children deserve time with their dad away from the stresses of home.

Your situation sound very hard. I hope it work out better for you soon.

Catzby · 28/10/2022 11:56

They're talking advantage and the proverbial! It's not fair on your children, especially your daughter. Well done for giving them until January.
If stay bringing it up on conversation with them regularly about their plans in case it gets to Jan and they think they can get away with staying longer.

Keep taking your kids out, it's important for them and your relationship with them. Your sister could join you of she wanted, and that's not your fault.

saraclara · 28/10/2022 11:57

OP has already gone over and above by offering his sister free accommodation. She was aware of the space he was offering and had no problem accepting it at the time. If it’s become an issue then it’s for her to find a solution, not demand more from OP and his daughter.

That. It's no small thing to have five extra people sharing your home. I couldn't do it. Yet so many people think OP hasn't done enough for them. It's nuts.

Throwawayaccount1 · 28/10/2022 11:58

Without knowing the whole lack of housing reason, it's hard to comment on the ins and outs of how that will pan out with being allocated council housing.
If we were able, we'd all (well most!) take family in if they were in this situation.

It appears the sister is being a bit of a CF about things and expecting OP to make unreasonable/unnecessary/unrealistic/unfair adjustments (pick which one you like for which thing). They've come into his house they just have to fall in line with his life and way of doing things. More people than bedrooms will undoubtedly cause friction as we all need space.
I'm unsure how the niece sleeping downstairs in the 'communal' area works, presumably she needs to go to bed earlier than adults which means they might be going to their rooms at her bed time, which must be annoying. Her parents should realistically move 'their' mattress downstairs giving her a room of her own.

OP I'm glad you've spoken about moving everything forward, I'm sure that in the long term this will save your relationship with your sister, who realistically must be feeling the strain too. Not everything works out as we'd hope and you've given it a good shot and hopefully given them a bit of time to straighten some things out.
You sound like the sort of person who'd help them with council paperwork etc and giving help to find somewhere so just help in any way you can like that I guess.

Weemummykay · 28/10/2022 11:58

tamarvin · 27/10/2022 21:34

Just a little update for anyone interested

I talked to my sister and her husband about the situation. I told them the arrangement is not working out and that they could only stay until January. They were not happy with me changing our agreement, but that's not unexpected. Hopefully when the time comes everything will go smoothly. I am going to write a written notice to give to them in case.

I also suggested that they try sleeping in the living room themselves and give their daughter the spare room or my sister and her daughter share the bedroom and her husband sleeps in the living room with nephew. The main issue they have with those options is that my sister's husband has a bad back and would be unable to sleep on a sofa or inflatable mattress without it causing him physical pain.

My sister has accepted that I am not going to force my daughter to share her bedroom and is looking to see if she can find some cheap partitions that might be more private than curtains.

If u give ur sister a written notice she can take that to the council which will put them higher on the list. Although I would have thought they would have been high already due to over crowding in ur house. My old landlord sold his house I was renting and I had to move in with my mum with my 2sons (15yrs and 6months old at the time) as there were no homeless accommodation in my area, so they shared the spare room and I had the couch and it took me 4 and a half months to get a house

BoobooMogooboo · 28/10/2022 12:12

You should remind your sister that hat it’s your house your rules and if she doesn’t like it not to let the door hit her in the ass

ELLAMAR00 · 28/10/2022 12:15

Your sister wants you to deprive your children of a meal out she sounds like a horrible person. You are doing them a favour I hope you don't let your daughter share with her cousin.They are getting free accommodation which is lovely of you to take in a family of five.

Fudgemonkeys · 28/10/2022 12:24

Our council won't rehome anyone if they've moved in with family as they aren't homeless. Whilst you did a kind thing the council no longer have an obligation to house them. I do hope you're charging rent and payment towards bills. Kindness is to kick them out then as they have young children the council will need to find them somewhere. Good luck

Silvers11 · 28/10/2022 12:36

BitossiBlues · 28/10/2022 11:37

I think the sister is well aware that council housing is a bit of a pipe dream, and that the temporary accommodation will be 100 x worse than the current situation.

Her alternatives are for her and her husband to get their shit together, work and save and get a private rental or stay put. Clearly the latter option is a whole lot easier for them, and if she wants to take the situation to the next level of permanent residency, moving their daughter in to the OP's daughter's room is the key to this, as it takes the relationship from sofa surfing to house share. The husband's "bad back" as a reason the adults can't sleep downstairs is a red herring - a decent and supportive fold up bed/futon can be purchased for the living room, if they were serious about their daughter's temporary lack of privacy and thinking about what's best for her and OP's family without an ulterior motive.

They are 5 (including dominant sister and niece) to the OP's 3 (including timid daughter), OP does not have a wife to back him up and defend their territory, and presumably is at work for a lot of the time the OP's children are at home and potentially being bossed around by the new "matriarch" of the household. I can see how the OP could get sucked into agreeing to a permanent arrangement through being guilt tripped and lacking another adult to back him up on this. I hope he is able to stick to his generous compromise of letting these guests have until January to find something else, and that these guests respect this deadline and the OP's boundaries, and make some arrangements to find alternative accommodation. I am shocked at the demands they have been making of the OP and his children, but I am guessing lack of awareness and a deep sense of entitlement may be how they have ended up in the situation they are in in the first place.

This!! Just this! I especially agree that the 'bad back' sends out even more red flags to me. It sounds more like an excuse. Perfectly possible to get a decent fold up bed of some description - if there were no ulterior motives

If the OPs sister and her family end up in homeless accommodation

a) It's a given they won't like it - but It will help them to move up the priority ladder, albeit they may still have to wait a while
b) When they are no longer living, eating and sleeping 24/7 in OPs home, there is still nothing to say that they can't spend some time during the day - say at Weekends - with the OP. He can still lend them a bit of a helping hand to get away from the homeless accommodation for some hours every week but without the mega disruption and frustrations etc of the current arrangement

PatrioticPenny743 · 28/10/2022 12:39

Your sister and kids in guest room, and the husband downstairs, end of....

Watzzap · 28/10/2022 12:47

Belinda500 · 28/10/2022 08:51

I think this thread throws up into the air, the whole idea of heling others. Most people here seem to think that the OP is essentially, Mother bloomin Theresa and yet Mother Theresa is rather resenting the idea that anything should change. So then, throw your sister out. She'll find out on whom she can rely. As for the rest of you, the world is changing. Putin may launch a nuclear attack on Ukraine most immediately but there's climate change and any number of other challenges ahead. I generally don't wish ill on people but I do hope that you discover what it is to be desperate, homeless and hungry, and that someone who is genuinely keen to help, lifts a finger and that you learn something.

You are wishing ill on somebody who is going out of his way to help his sister, including free accommodation.

Thank god creatures like you are in the minority. Why don’t you just crawl back under that stone you came out from?

You really are quite a nasty piece of work!

MadelineUsher · 28/10/2022 12:54

I generally don't wish ill on people but I do hope that you discover what it is to be desperate, homeless and hungry, and that someone who is genuinely keen to help, lifts a finger and that you learn something.

So much highfalutin insane projection! They are not desperate. They are not homeless. And they are not hungry. The brother/uncle has lifted a finger, and had them living in his home for the last 4 months, and was prepared to stick it out for another 8, like this, until the sister started throwing her weight around.

MadelineUsher · 28/10/2022 13:01

Belinda500 · 28/10/2022 08:16

And YOUR assumption is LAZINESS.

Say what? Are you all right? How on earth would you know what my assumption is? I have no idea what has gone wrong. I would consider they may have got into arrears on their rent, the husband lost his job perhaps, or his bad back prevents him from working, or he's a gambler, or the sister lost her job, or she's a gambler. I have no idea. But it has never crossed my mind they were lazy!

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/10/2022 13:02

the TEENAGE daughter has to sleep on the couch where anyone can walk in on her. But I suppose she deserves it because she's poor.

No - she is there through force of circumstance, not "because she is poor", and no-one deserves to be homeless - it's awful.

But the logistics of the situation are that there is one available guest bedroom, and any surplus people will have to sleep in the living room. Sister and husband have chosen to take the bedroom - this leaves the living room for their DD.

I actually feel very sorry for ALL of them in this situation. It's really horrible for them.

gemma19846 · 28/10/2022 13:06

Castro86 · 28/10/2022 09:40

It is probably because they are on low incomes or unemployed.

Private rents often unaffordable to families on low incomes. The welfare cap and high cost of private rent means that even if they are entitled to receive the maximum level of housing benefit it would only cover about half the cost of a private rented property. This means they need to cover the additional costs from their income, which means they can no longer afford to cover the costs of basic necessities such as food and utilities.

Since the introduction of the welfare cap over 40% of people receiving housing benefits have fallen behind on their rent. This might be why the sister and her family are in this situation.

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Perhaps they need to get a job first THEN rent privatley. I cant be doing with people who dont help themselves and thinks everything is everyone elses fault. Get a job, rent a house, end of problem

Emotionalsupportviper · 28/10/2022 13:11

WickedStepmomNOT · 28/10/2022 09:20

Not to derail - but finally, someone else who knows what an awful person mother Theresa was! Deliberately made people suffer excruciating pain, withheld pain meds so they would be closer to god!!!! Horrible, horrible woman.

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I didn't know about the pain meds bit - I always did dislike her though for refusing to condone contraception - she thought it's better for unwanted babies (almost invariably girls) to be dumped in dustbins, or if a family couldn't afford another child to keep the newborn if it was a boy, and sell/dump an older daughter.

And I couldn't get away from her apparent obsession with celebrity. I never thought here was anything humble about Mother T.