Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

Most people here seem to think that the OP is essentially, Mother bloomin Theresa

although that comment did sound ridiculous at first Mother Teresa was actually a nasty old woman who believed people should suffer for their sins.

so probably about right. This family have been stupid enough to end up homeless, so they should suffer for it.

Belinda500

ill assume you are a troll rather than an idiot, but do correct me

the parents of the teenage girls are the ones denying her a room by not giving her theirs. Or are they exempt from showing kindness? To their own daughter?

and you ‘generally don’t wish ill on people but i do hope you discover what it’s like to be desperate, homeless and hungry’

you’re a delight, aren’t you 😂😂😂😂

Och, stop being so silly.

The teenage girl has parents. Her right to privacy should be being met by them, not the OP.

And sharing a room with her cousin wouldn’t give her that anyway.

Oh please.

Oh please what? Have you finally run out of faux outrage based on ... nothing?

And if the council would have provided them such amazing suitable accommodation why are they not in it already?

They will never move out as the council will see them as housed. Is the sister and partner working?

I love people who think others should do something but for xxx reason they couldnt.

This family will get very used to this set up as they arent paying anything like the sorts of costs they would if they were living seperately and if they are throwing their weight around it will only get worse. Yes, its squashed for them but look at all they are saving.

I thought council waiting lists were years long.

This doesn't make ANY sense.

Why do they think they have to live with you for a year waiting for housing?
Are they on the council waiting list? if so ask to see what position they are on the list, I don't believe they will be offered anything (this is if they have even approached the council) when they have accommodation.
What are they doing with the money they are saving not paying rent for the last 4 months? by now they should have saved up enough for a deposit with private landlord.
A letter from you giving them a date to leave is exactly what they need to take to the council to get them on the ladder.

They are taking the absolute pee. sounds to me the conversation between DS and DSH was.... you know what DB has far too much room in his 4 bed house, lets go live there rent free.

Not to derail - but finally, someone else who knows what an awful person mother Theresa was! Deliberately made people suffer excruciating pain, withheld pain meds so they would be closer to god!!!! Horrible, horrible woman.

Are you mad? Your sister can do one! Your home your rules CF IN MASSIVE WAY. If she doesn’t like it get out

She'll find out on whom she can rely.
Like most of us, herself. It sounds like a lesson she and her husband need to learn.

Hopelesscynic
"The council won't be able to help until they are officially homeless. And a temp house would be a lot better than all of you being crammed at yours."
Toomuchtrouble4me
"i thought council wait lists were years long, and they won’t be priority because they’re housed."

Yes, as many people have pointed out, council housing lists are long and there are far more applications than they can possibly fulfil. There is no way that they will be rehousing them whilst they are staying with you.

I don't know where they have got the idea that they will be rehoused unless they are actually HOMELESS.
As for the girls' sleeping arrangments, I don't see why the parents shouldn't sleep on the sofabed, they probably go to bed later than their daughter. There is no reason why your daughter should share a room unless there is a close relationship with her cousin.

I think it depends on the reason for homelessness and whether they have been assessed as being unintentionally homeless or not.

In my LA if you’re deemed unintentionally homeless then housing is allocated based on date of application (with exclusions for disability or medical reasons) and it doesn’t matter whether you accept LA temp accommodation or choose to live with family/friends while you’re waiting as you’re still insecurely housed.

You shouldn't have agreed to them moving in for so long, although it was a very kind thing for you to do.

I have a spare room and have had family members try and move in indefinitely; I always say no for all the potential problems you are now experiencing.

They've already been with you for 4 months rent-free, which is fantastically supportive. From where you are now, be clear to them that they need to move out by x date, and stick to it. Be warned that the relationship between you and your sister may breakdown as a result, but that's not your fault.

But she took the medication she had denied others when she got ill herself. I wish more people were aware of the truth. She was no saint!!

It is probably because they are on low incomes or unemployed.

Private rents often unaffordable to families on low incomes. The welfare cap and high cost of private rent means that even if they are entitled to receive the maximum level of housing benefit it would only cover about half the cost of a private rented property. This means they need to cover the additional costs from their income, which means they can no longer afford to cover the costs of basic necessities such as food and utilities.

Since the introduction of the welfare cap over 40% of people receiving housing benefits have fallen behind on their rent. This might be why the sister and her family are in this situation.

@Belinda500 hope you’re trolling and not genuine because girl, everyone is definitely laughing at how batshit you sound

Is it a middle class value to expect poor people, HOMELESS people, to know their place when being condescended to with charity that is hugely conditional on the recipients being quiet, grateful and thankful to their beneficiaries on a daily basis for grudgingly giving them a bit of space in their house but affording a TEENAGED girl no privacy?? Yes. I thought so.

@Belinda500, where exactly does OP say that the arrangement is conditional on this?

And how would sharing a room give this girl privacy?

Despite the spin, I fail to see the issue. If you’re living on someone else’s charity, and have accepted the space they have offered in their home, you don’t start demanding more from them, and attempt to dictate what they can do with their own children and money.

and yes, they should be grateful. OP has taken on a burden, and extended to them a kindness, he never had to.

Neither British nor the slightest bit ashamed.

ah well.

It doesn’t seem to have benefited her hugely so far.

One is ‘valued less’ because she’s a guest in OP’s home, and ultimately OP’s responsibility is to his daughter, not his niece. His daughter isn’t close to her cousin and values having her own space. Denying her that, and forcing her to share with her cousin is not going to engineer closeness, but further unhappiness and resentment.

OP has already gone over and above by offering his sister free accommodation. She was aware of the space he was offering and had no problem accepting it at the time. If it’s become an issue then it’s for her to find a solution, not demand more from OP and his daughter.

Stick to your guns OP, but be prepared for resistance come January.

This^ with bells on.

Considering what you're kids have gone through already, losing their mother, you are right to prioritise their mental health and wellbeing.

This is obviously a very difficult situation, but I think a lot depends on the exact circumstances. Are the sister and her partner actively trying to find private rented accommodation? Or are they just set on getting a council place, and nothing else will do? How certain is it that they ever intend to leave?

There was a similar situation in my family and the (intentionally) homeless family just refused to move out. The house owner had inherited a small farm next door, with a mortgage, so eventually he told his brother that he could live there if he covered the small mortgage payments(Less than £600 per YEAR). The payments were made months late, if at all. In the end, he gave his brother the farm, just to get rid of the whole situation. The brother demanded that the house owner gave him his own house instead, because it was bigger.

At any rate, I do think that there is a certain strength in admitting that an earlier decision was unwise, and the current situation is not working. Moving the niece into her cousins' room will be the one thing that makes the move feel permanent to them, and if that happens, they will never move out.

It's been a long time since I posted here although I sometimes watch but I wanted to come in on this one.

I am homeless, so certainly not middle class and never have been, so I hope I'm allowed an opinion without being screamed at. I am technically a Women's Aid resident but they didn't have room for my wheelchair so I ended up with the council.

I had started off staying with a partner (not the one that was abusive and I didn't tell the council I am non-monogamous because that would confused issues) but whilst I was technically sofa surfing, even though it was in a flat with no lift so I had issues using my wheelchair, I was not a priority for the council in fact they removed me from the list altogether. As hard as it was my partner had to take me to my parents house so I could call WA and declare homeless. He told me leaving the hotel that night he had to pullover and cry. That was the best hotel I stayed in, I've had 3 and trust me hotel is a euphemism, these are not nice places. I'm now in dispersed accommodation and probably have another 10 years here because I'm too young to be level 2 disabled.

Whilst you are housing them the council don't care and you will continue to have these issues. Yes it will be horrible for them, they'll be sharing a single room in a hotel and maybe a kitchen with twenty other families. All of them are currently worse off than your sister, all of them a higher priority. Why should your sister get a pass on the list? Don't get me wrong, I think they're evil places and wouldn't wish them on anyone but whilst there are people there they get priority. Homelessness is in dire numbers right now. You have saved them from it at the cost of lengthening their homelessness.

What the answers are for your living situation is kind of irrelevant, it's a mess and always will be whilst you live together. They are not respecting your home, your children, your family or their own situation. Your children don't need to be forced to give up their space if they don't need to. If they care so much about their daughter's privacy they'd swap (trust me, hotel beds aren't going to be fun and the bed here has put me in hospital, I'm not saying that lightly). You aren't responsible for paying for them all to eat out, for including them on family activities nor should you give it up. Your children deserve time with their dad away from the stresses of home.

If it was really just about his back there would be another solution to swapping rooms, eg buying a suitable mattress or futon and taking it with them or even just bringing down the mattress from upstairs. I can't follow this at all, it would be such a logical and obvious thing for us that the child would get the bedroom so they can go to bed before all the adults. I guess they are just determined not to give up the bedroom really.

It sounds very challenging all round.