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Controversial murder cases (true crime documentaries) - guilty or not guilty?

227 replies

XelaM · 24/10/2022 13:14

I went down the rabbit hole of watching a number of true crime series and a few of the horrid cases have stuck in my mind. For example:

Tim Hennis - the decorated senior military officer who was convicted of the unbelievably brutal murder of the wife and two small children (5 and 3 year-old girls) of a fellow officer Gary Eastburn.

It's the "Double Jeopardy" episode on the "Death Row Stories" on Prime (free). I really can't get my head around this case and I keep thinking he is innocent. It just doesn't make sense. He was happily married with an infant daughter whom he adored, a decorated war hero who has (before and after the initial conviction) lived an absolutely picture-perfect life with not a single black mark against his character. How can this be reconciled with someone who stabbed two infant children 15 times each for apparently no reason at all other than to brutally rape and also absolutely savagely murder their mother? There was a lot of DNA at the scene, which didn't match his - male DNA under the fingernails of the victims, pubic hair, blood etc. It appears absolutely everyone was convinced this was a wrongful conviction. But then over 20 years later, the one bit of DNA that matched was the sperm inside the mother. He says they had consensual sex a few days before the murders, which also doesn't quite ring true. I really don't understand this case. It's such a tragedy for both the Eastburn and the Hennis families.

David Bain - the only survivor of the Bain family murders in NZ. I watched the "Bain Family Murders" series on Channel 4 (it's still on All 4) - not a documentary, but it's apparently very close to the real events. David was the sole survivor of the massacre of his whole family - father, mother, two sisters aged 19 and 18 and younger brother aged 14.

David was the eldest of the children at 22 and was allegedly doing his paper round when the murders took place. There was a typed note on the family computer saying "Sorry you're the only one who deserved to stay". There has been a lot debate about whether it was David or his father Robin who committed the murders. But having looked at the evidence (from what's available online) I cannot believe that David Bain is now free to walk the streets. There was so much evidence that he was the one who killed his whole family. The younger brother put up a huge fight and David could never explain the fresh injuries he sustained that morning; David's bloodied gloves were used on the gun (why would the father use gloves if he wanted to commit suicide?); David's broken glasses were found in the brother's room; the brother had fibres from David's sweater under his finger nails; David claimed to have heard his youngest sister gurgle up blood which scientifically would only have been possible if he was the killer; the way the father allegedly killed himself was almost an impossible position to recreate (and why would he use a silencer to make it even more awkward to kill himself?); he washed his clothes before calling the police and there was a bloodied finger print on the washing machine etc etc etc. It's so strange to me that his conviction was quashed based on the testimony of a few witnesses who claimed the youngest daughter was making contradictory claims that the father had abused her (I don't think that was ever proven to be true).

The Menendez brothers - the two sons of the famous Hollywood producer who murdered both their parents. Were they spoiled rich boys only after their parent's fortune or tragic victims of sexual abuse in fear for their lives? This is another Channel 4 documentary (I watched it on catch up on All 4).

Another very bizarre case. The multimillionaire Hollywood producer (who I believe produced Rambo and possibly Rocky) had the perfect Beverly Hills life with his wife and two good-looking seemingly carefree, typical "rich boys" sons. Until one day both he and his wife were brutally gunned down in their home. The murder was so brutal that the police initially thought this was a mafia hit and no one suspected the sons until the younger one stupidly confided in a crooked psychologist. The prosecution believed their only motivation was greed and money because the father was allegedly going to cut them out of his will. However, during the trial, they brought a totally unexpected defence - that they had been the victims of the most cruel sexual abuse at the hands of their father since early childhood and that they feared for their lives because they were going to expose their father. The mother apparently knew and enabled him. The defence had 51 witnesses (friends and family members) all testify what a horrible bastard the father was and it appears everyone hated him. But was he really sexually abusing his sons and were they really in fear for their lives when they killed their parents or were they just greedy rich boys after their parents' money? I'm really torn on this case. On the one hand, it's quite telling that the whole family on both sides is supporting them and that 51 witnesses all testified to say the father was an arsehole and their own evidence was very believable on the stand; however, the comments made by the elder brother after the first trial (that they managed to fool the jury) and their general behaviour and demeanour makes me think they made it up.

Anyone else interested in controversial convictions? Any opinions on either of the above cases or any other similar cases?

Apologies for the extremely long post 😬

OP posts:
PipMumsnet · 24/10/2022 13:37

Hello OP, we just wanted to suggest moving this thread to another board like crime or telly addicts where you might get more replies. If you would like us to do this please use the report feature on the bottom of your post.
MNHQ

XelaM · 24/10/2022 13:41

Thank you! I thought there might be more traffic here. Apologies if this wasn't the right place to post

OP posts:
countdowntonap · 24/10/2022 14:06

These cases are truly fascinating and ones I’ve not heard of before. Only recently started reading about unsolved crimes. I don’t have anything to add at the moment, but following with interest. Thank you for describing the cases in such detail.

Arriettyborrower · 24/10/2022 14:18

I wasn’t aware of any of these cases, off to Google myself down a huge rabbit hole about them all - thank you!

XelaM · 24/10/2022 14:33

The TV series about them are really fascinating, although the one about the Bains doesn't really say much about who did it. Two are on Channel 4 catch up and the Hennis one is on Prime - it's an episode of the Death Row series.

OP posts:
Nordstrom · 24/10/2022 14:45

West Cork. Chronicles the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier. Would recommend the podcast if you haven't heard/watched about the case already.

XelaM · 24/10/2022 15:00

Nordstrom · 24/10/2022 14:45

West Cork. Chronicles the murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier. Would recommend the podcast if you haven't heard/watched about the case already.

Thank you! I haven't heard of it and will definitely look it up

OP posts:
Laiste · 24/10/2022 15:19

I just watched one of the Unsolved Mysteries (Netflix) about the 18 year old girl 'hit' by a freight train in the USA in the woods in the middle of the night.

Her death has been recorded as suicide. The family are adamant it was not.

This train track was 6 miles from her home where she'd gone missing a couple of hours earlier. She was caught on CCTV camera as she left the house so the time was known. Her phone (which she was usually ''glued to'' like all teenagers) was found in the grass by the road near her house.

Her body, on the tracks, was barefoot and nearly naked. Her shoes were found a couple of weeks later miles away next to a busy road and the rest of her clothes were never found.

There was no damage the soles of her feet even though there was no path to the point on the tracks where the train ran over her. Just sharp gravel.

She was tall. Her injuries were consistent with her laying across the narrow tracks and the train running her over.

Suicide ?!?! I mean .....

SolviturAmbulando · 24/10/2022 15:41

The suspicious disappearance and death of a child, Noah Donohoe, in June 2020. His naked body was retrieved from a storm drain six days after his disappearance. The police claim that there was no foul play and that nobody else was involved in his disappearance and death, but that is very difficult to believe. His mother and auntie have been fighting tirelessly since for the truth and for justice for Noah:

mobile.twitter.com/MarymoBelfast/status/1370453351616425985

Laiste · 24/10/2022 15:52

@SolviturAmbulando yes i read about that poor lad.

The more you read about that the more peculiar it is.

iirc 2 witnesses saw him riding his bike or running naked near their houses.

Did he decide to go into that storm? Such a long way in. Was he put there? Was he hiding from someone?

Laiste · 24/10/2022 15:53

storm drain

XelaM · 24/10/2022 15:54

Laiste · 24/10/2022 15:52

@SolviturAmbulando yes i read about that poor lad.

The more you read about that the more peculiar it is.

iirc 2 witnesses saw him riding his bike or running naked near their houses.

Did he decide to go into that storm? Such a long way in. Was he put there? Was he hiding from someone?

This is such a tragic case. I read about it on Mumsnet first. That poor mother. It's so unfair the case files are not being released to her.

OP posts:
XelaM · 24/10/2022 15:55

Laiste · 24/10/2022 15:19

I just watched one of the Unsolved Mysteries (Netflix) about the 18 year old girl 'hit' by a freight train in the USA in the woods in the middle of the night.

Her death has been recorded as suicide. The family are adamant it was not.

This train track was 6 miles from her home where she'd gone missing a couple of hours earlier. She was caught on CCTV camera as she left the house so the time was known. Her phone (which she was usually ''glued to'' like all teenagers) was found in the grass by the road near her house.

Her body, on the tracks, was barefoot and nearly naked. Her shoes were found a couple of weeks later miles away next to a busy road and the rest of her clothes were never found.

There was no damage the soles of her feet even though there was no path to the point on the tracks where the train ran over her. Just sharp gravel.

She was tall. Her injuries were consistent with her laying across the narrow tracks and the train running her over.

Suicide ?!?! I mean .....

Ohhhh, I have not seen this. I will watch it. Thank you!

OP posts:
x2boys · 24/10/2022 16:05

The one that haunts mec8s Amy Lynn Bradley who disappeared from a cruise ship in 1998 ,was she kidnapped and sold into sex trafficking?
Did she fall overboard
Is she still alive,?

XelaM · 24/10/2022 16:09

Another wrongful conviction I believe is the case of Darlie Routier - the mother convicted of stabbing two of her three sons to death. It's also part of the "Death Row Stories" series on Prime. I just don't believe she did it.

She was a doting mother of three boys. Then one night whilst she and her two sons were asleep on the groundfloor and her husband and youngest child were upstairs, she and her two sons get brutally stabbed numerous times. She immediately frantically dials 999 that there was an intruder who stabbed her and the boys. The call was so frantic and completely convincing. It was also done immediately after the attack. She dialled crying that her babies were dying and one of her sons only lived for 8 minutes after the attack, 5 of which she was on the phone to the emergency services. The husband heard her screams and came downstairs to find the bloody scene. Her own throat was slashed and it's only by sheer luck that a necklace she was wearing saved her life. I don't believe there is any plausible explanation for why she would do this to herself and two of her sons. She also had no time at all to stage the scene of an intrusion (as the prosecution suggested) as she was on the phone to emergency services who arrived almost immediately. The prosecution said her motive was a life policy on the boys, but that was only for $5000, which didn't even cover their funeral expenses. It doesn't make any sense. The husband who was never pursued by the prosecution failed a polygraph test suggesting that he was the one involved in the murders and attempted murder on Darlie, as there was a $250K life insurance policy on her. But there still must have been an intruder who committed the actual murders. I think there is currently DNA testing being done of a bloodied fingerprint found at the scene. I hope she gets exonerated.

OP posts:
XelaM · 24/10/2022 16:17

x2boys · 24/10/2022 16:05

The one that haunts mec8s Amy Lynn Bradley who disappeared from a cruise ship in 1998 ,was she kidnapped and sold into sex trafficking?
Did she fall overboard
Is she still alive,?

Yes, this is such a strange case! There have been possible sightings of her but the circumstances of her disappearance are so odd.

OP posts:
JadeSeahorse · 24/10/2022 16:20

XelaM · 24/10/2022 16:09

Another wrongful conviction I believe is the case of Darlie Routier - the mother convicted of stabbing two of her three sons to death. It's also part of the "Death Row Stories" series on Prime. I just don't believe she did it.

She was a doting mother of three boys. Then one night whilst she and her two sons were asleep on the groundfloor and her husband and youngest child were upstairs, she and her two sons get brutally stabbed numerous times. She immediately frantically dials 999 that there was an intruder who stabbed her and the boys. The call was so frantic and completely convincing. It was also done immediately after the attack. She dialled crying that her babies were dying and one of her sons only lived for 8 minutes after the attack, 5 of which she was on the phone to the emergency services. The husband heard her screams and came downstairs to find the bloody scene. Her own throat was slashed and it's only by sheer luck that a necklace she was wearing saved her life. I don't believe there is any plausible explanation for why she would do this to herself and two of her sons. She also had no time at all to stage the scene of an intrusion (as the prosecution suggested) as she was on the phone to emergency services who arrived almost immediately. The prosecution said her motive was a life policy on the boys, but that was only for $5000, which didn't even cover their funeral expenses. It doesn't make any sense. The husband who was never pursued by the prosecution failed a polygraph test suggesting that he was the one involved in the murders and attempted murder on Darlie, as there was a $250K life insurance policy on her. But there still must have been an intruder who committed the actual murders. I think there is currently DNA testing being done of a bloodied fingerprint found at the scene. I hope she gets exonerated.

I agree about Darlie Routier and have always suspected the husband.

Another one that leaves me very uncomfortable - although not a popular opinion - is the case of Jeremy Bamber.
Yes he seems to have been something of an arsehole when younger but for some reason I can't put my finger on I have never felt he was guilty.

XelaM · 24/10/2022 16:23

JadeSeahorse · 24/10/2022 16:20

I agree about Darlie Routier and have always suspected the husband.

Another one that leaves me very uncomfortable - although not a popular opinion - is the case of Jeremy Bamber.
Yes he seems to have been something of an arsehole when younger but for some reason I can't put my finger on I have never felt he was guilty.

Omg me too! I used to be so interested in this case! I think he was framed by members of his extended family for the inheritance and it was the sister who committed the actual murders.

OP posts:
JadeSeahorse · 24/10/2022 16:30

@Xelam great minds! 😂

Also meant to add the case of Amy Bradley - the girl who went missing from the cruise ship - is heartbreaking. God knows how her family have coped all these years and especially with the numerous reports of her having been seen being sold for sex. 😥

SolviturAmbulando · 24/10/2022 16:32

XelaM · 24/10/2022 15:54

This is such a tragic case. I read about it on Mumsnet first. That poor mother. It's so unfair the case files are not being released to her.

It is, @XelaM @Laiste . Four witnesses have said they saw Noah cycling or running naked in that street on the Sunday he disappeared. Nobody helped him at all, and nobody even reported it until 24 hours later. Others present seen on the very short clips of CCTV disclosed - two men and the occupant(s) of a car - have not come forward or been traced as far as his mother and auntie are aware. Statements have been made and then retracted, potential evidence dismissed or kept secret and forensics not taken. It all smacks of a cover up and police incompetence. Noah's inquest is scheduled for later this month and a decision is awaited on whether that will be with a jury or just the coroner.

x2boys · 24/10/2022 16:33

JadeSeahorse · 24/10/2022 16:20

I agree about Darlie Routier and have always suspected the husband.

Another one that leaves me very uncomfortable - although not a popular opinion - is the case of Jeremy Bamber.
Yes he seems to have been something of an arsehole when younger but for some reason I can't put my finger on I have never felt he was guilty.

Yes I agree I was never convinced he was guilty
What about Chris Coleman he's on death row for murdering his wife and two sons and staging it so if looked like a break in ,I think the evidence waa quite compelling ,apparently the motive was he was having an affair with his wife's best friend but he didn't want to get divorced as he would lose his job ,he worked for an evangelist

Why murder the boys though.?

Notjusta · 24/10/2022 16:37

Have you watched The Staircase OP? I think the documentary is still on Netflix. Fascinating. Also there is a podcast I think about the same case that takes a very different stance to the documentary. I watched the documentary first, then the podcast and am still not sure what I think about the case.

x2boys · 24/10/2022 16:37

JadeSeahorse · 24/10/2022 16:30

@Xelam great minds! 😂

Also meant to add the case of Amy Bradley - the girl who went missing from the cruise ship - is heartbreaking. God knows how her family have coped all these years and especially with the numerous reports of her having been seen being sold for sex. 😥

Yes it's just so sad, I hope that she simply fell overboard, the alternative doesn't bare thinking about .

DanteThunderstone · 24/10/2022 16:43

I struggle to imagine what happened to Asha Degree. No conviction in the case of her disappearance, so off topic for the thread, but also no obvious suspect or motive for why a little girl left her house in the middle of a stormy night.

Closer to home I'm not entirely convinced that Luke Mitchell murdered Jodi Jones. And the recent conviction for the killing of Rikki Neave back in 1994 relied on DNA evidence supposedly from Rikki's clothes (which is fine if the chain of custody is in tact but the fact is that Cambridgeshire Police have long since somehow, with unbelievable incompetence, lost everything Rikki was wearing that day - underwear, shoes, shirt, coat: all completely mislaid and untestable). The recent conviction also relies on Rikki having been killed in the middle of the day he went missing (otherwise the boy convicted was alibi-ed). Again, fine if that's reliable but it ignores statements from more than 30 witnesses saying they saw Rikki in the hours later.

x2boys · 24/10/2022 16:47

DanteThunderstone · 24/10/2022 16:43

I struggle to imagine what happened to Asha Degree. No conviction in the case of her disappearance, so off topic for the thread, but also no obvious suspect or motive for why a little girl left her house in the middle of a stormy night.

Closer to home I'm not entirely convinced that Luke Mitchell murdered Jodi Jones. And the recent conviction for the killing of Rikki Neave back in 1994 relied on DNA evidence supposedly from Rikki's clothes (which is fine if the chain of custody is in tact but the fact is that Cambridgeshire Police have long since somehow, with unbelievable incompetence, lost everything Rikki was wearing that day - underwear, shoes, shirt, coat: all completely mislaid and untestable). The recent conviction also relies on Rikki having been killed in the middle of the day he went missing (otherwise the boy convicted was alibi-ed). Again, fine if that's reliable but it ignores statements from more than 30 witnesses saying they saw Rikki in the hours later.

I think the time was determined, because gr had partially digested weatabix in his stomach?

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