Controversial murder cases (true crime documentaries) - guilty or not guilty?

[XelaM]

I went down the rabbit hole of watching a number of true crime series and a few of the horrid cases have stuck in my mind. For example:

Tim Hennis - the decorated senior military officer who was convicted of the unbelievably brutal murder of the wife and two small children (5 and 3 year-old girls) of a fellow officer Gary Eastburn.

It's the "Double Jeopardy" episode on the "Death Row Stories" on Prime (free). I really can't get my head around this case and I keep thinking he is innocent. It just doesn't make sense. He was happily married with an infant daughter whom he adored, a decorated war hero who has (before and after the initial conviction) lived an absolutely picture-perfect life with not a single black mark against his character. How can this be reconciled with someone who stabbed two infant children 15 times each for apparently no reason at all other than to brutally rape and also absolutely savagely murder their mother? There was a lot of DNA at the scene, which didn't match his - male DNA under the fingernails of the victims, pubic hair, blood etc. It appears absolutely everyone was convinced this was a wrongful conviction. But then over 20 years later, the one bit of DNA that matched was the sperm inside the mother. He says they had consensual sex a few days before the murders, which also doesn't quite ring true. I really don't understand this case. It's such a tragedy for both the Eastburn and the Hennis families.

David Bain - the only survivor of the Bain family murders in NZ. I watched the "Bain Family Murders" series on Channel 4 (it's still on All 4) - not a documentary, but it's apparently very close to the real events. David was the sole survivor of the massacre of his whole family - father, mother, two sisters aged 19 and 18 and younger brother aged 14.

David was the eldest of the children at 22 and was allegedly doing his paper round when the murders took place. There was a typed note on the family computer saying "Sorry you're the only one who deserved to stay". There has been a lot debate about whether it was David or his father Robin who committed the murders. But having looked at the evidence (from what's available online) I cannot believe that David Bain is now free to walk the streets. There was so much evidence that he was the one who killed his whole family. The younger brother put up a huge fight and David could never explain the fresh injuries he sustained that morning; David's bloodied gloves were used on the gun (why would the father use gloves if he wanted to commit suicide?); David's broken glasses were found in the brother's room; the brother had fibres from David's sweater under his finger nails; David claimed to have heard his youngest sister gurgle up blood which scientifically would only have been possible if he was the killer; the way the father allegedly killed himself was almost an impossible position to recreate (and why would he use a silencer to make it even more awkward to kill himself?); he washed his clothes before calling the police and there was a bloodied finger print on the washing machine etc etc etc. It's so strange to me that his conviction was quashed based on the testimony of a few witnesses who claimed the youngest daughter was making contradictory claims that the father had abused her (I don't think that was ever proven to be true).

The Menendez brothers - the two sons of the famous Hollywood producer who murdered both their parents. Were they spoiled rich boys only after their parent's fortune or tragic victims of sexual abuse in fear for their lives? This is another Channel 4 documentary (I watched it on catch up on All 4).

Another very bizarre case. The multimillionaire Hollywood producer (who I believe produced Rambo and possibly Rocky) had the perfect Beverly Hills life with his wife and two good-looking seemingly carefree, typical "rich boys" sons. Until one day both he and his wife were brutally gunned down in their home. The murder was so brutal that the police initially thought this was a mafia hit and no one suspected the sons until the younger one stupidly confided in a crooked psychologist. The prosecution believed their only motivation was greed and money because the father was allegedly going to cut them out of his will. However, during the trial, they brought a totally unexpected defence - that they had been the victims of the most cruel sexual abuse at the hands of their father since early childhood and that they feared for their lives because they were going to expose their father. The mother apparently knew and enabled him. The defence had 51 witnesses (friends and family members) all testify what a horrible bastard the father was and it appears everyone hated him. But was he really sexually abusing his sons and were they really in fear for their lives when they killed their parents or were they just greedy rich boys after their parents' money? I'm really torn on this case. On the one hand, it's quite telling that the whole family on both sides is supporting them and that 51 witnesses all testified to say the father was an arsehole and their own evidence was very believable on the stand; however, the comments made by the elder brother after the first trial (that they managed to fool the jury) and their general behaviour and demeanour makes me think they made it up.

Anyone else interested in controversial convictions? Any opinions on either of the above cases or any other similar cases?

Apologies for the extremely long post 😬

Absolutely. How they didn't charge them after THAT "ransom note" is beyond me. Poor beautiful girl. I think it was probably the brother and the parents covered it up, but there was most certainly no intruder and that random note was so obviously fake it's ridiculous

Oh interesting! I will search for this

I hadn't heard of this case, but it sounds so awful. I will look it up

@GoGoose nothing about the sentence, although I do believe he would have been out by now had he not continued to protest his innocence.

If he is guilty without doubt; why so many appeals over the years? Why so many police mistakes? There are many men in prison who protest their innocence, or keep quiet, but in his case I believe there is more to it.

I also believe Levi Bellfield killed Meg and Lynn Russell, but there is no doubt that Michael Stone is a very dangerous man and perhaps to be where he is...albeit for the wrong crime.

Darlie Routier - guilty in my view.

Jeremy Bamber - not guilty, family scapegoat.

Asha Degree - someone within the family or well known to the the family.

Andrew Gosden and Amy Lynn Bradley - sex trafficking.

I think a lot of people don't realise how common and internationally well organised the sex trafficking industry is. I think that's because it rarely happens to white westerners and mostly to indigenous and far east / south east asia women and girils.

My own pet controversies, for what they're worth:

• The Yorkshire Ripper clearly killed out of sexual gratification and misogyny ( he was a cross dresser and had a rape kit in his car) yet managed to convince a psychiatrist he was schizophrenic on zero good evidence, avoided a jury trial and had a cushy life in Broadmoor. Just goes to show how little valued the lives of the women were.
• I think Jimmy Savile was involved in some of the Yorkshire Ripper's crimes. One of the victims' bodies were found in Savile's back garden. They were very close when the YR was in Broadmoor.
• Maddie McCann - more going on in that fmaily than met the eye. I don't think they killed her. I do think there was abuse happening.
• Ditto JonBenet Ramsay.

I watched all of Netflix 'I am a killer' and it was shocking how so many of the murderers had dreadful childhoods.

I fell down a rabbit hole about Jimmy Saville and the Yorkshire Ripper and wether there was involvement in the murders given what we now know about Jimmy Saville ,it does seem possible.

William Tyrrell is another case that remains unsolved. Australian toddler who went missing, supposedly in a moment from his grandmother's house on the edge of a small town. Due to Australian privacy laws, it was years before the media was allowed to disclose that he was actually a foster child and had actually last been seen in the custody of his foster mother and her mum. The police initially thought he'd wandered off into the bush, then that he'd been abducted by a stranger. Developments since suggest they think he may have died closer to home. There's a suspicion that metadata on a digital photo of William may have been manipulated to alter the time he was supposedly last photographed.

His foster mum has since been arrested in relation to another foster child. The foster family's identities are still being withheld.

I feel desperately sorry for his birth family who had buckets of problems but undoubtedly loved him. When he was a baby they hid from authorities rather than surrender him to care. They were caught, he was taken into 'care' - and then this nightmare. Poor tot.

It would not surprise me.

I think there is a lot about Sutcliffe's crimes which the public does not know. the existence of his rape kit for example, put together so that he could perform sex acts over the bodies of his victims in relative comfort, was never revealed to the public until many years later.

The police also found his cross dressing kits at his home on the first search but then never followed up.

A number of victims of his not confirmed as possible victims until many years later.

the police force was so bruised by the public's anger over their long failure to catch him (despite interviewing him at his home 7 times) that they just wanted him locked away and did not want the embarrassment of a proper jury trial.

His victims and their families were denied the cleansing sunlight of justice.

There have been cases over turned/solved recently by the work of amateur sleuths, I’m sure the wrongly convicted were grateful for the ghouls 🙄

I think there is always so much information held back, either by authorities or by the journalists presenting a certain slant.

The West Memphis 3 was a case a lot of celebrities got behind, convinced they were innocent. I definitely believe the convictions were very unsafe but some of the more convincing evidence wasn't included in the documentaries and I find it interesting how certain people can be from a clearly biased film. Not saying they're guilty either, the investigation was completely botched.

Same with Michael Petersen...lots was left out, which became clear when it came out it had been edited by his long term secret girlfriend!

Same with Tiffany Valiante- she apparently had a lot more personal problems than the family admitted to. I say apparently because can't trust speculation on the Web either. You could feel how sad and desperate her parents were for it not to be true, but we don't always know our kids like we think we do.

I think a common theme is things either not being taken seriously by police or bad investigation. Makes me terrified in case I ever need them.

I think they have a few real suspects for the Delphi case including a known sex offender who was talking to Libby online. How they haven't convicted anyone is mad.

Definitely think Bamber is guilty though.

With the Delphi case, I think law enforcement have a good idea of who they think it is but lack sufficient hard evidence to justify an arrest. And with respect to @Navigatingnewwaters comment, the Delphi case is one where the lead investigator actually came out and said that online publicity was going to be key in solving the case in terms of helping find other young women and girls who may have been groomed online in the way they think Libby German was.

@saltinesandcoffeecups comment I mean, not Navigatig, whose comment I agree with. Apologies.

The major problem with threads here and on other sites is the speculation driven by inaccurately translated gossip. How many people have read the court transcripts in full - perhaps gone back a second or even a third time to really understand the facts and the benefits and limitations of expert witness opinions.

Even when juries convict and appeals are upheld, people trot out armchair opinions as if they are fact as if the whole legal system is completely inept. If people took time to read the transcripts and the sentencing reports there would be more acceptance and less conspiracy theories.

In the case of The White House murders, both the prosecution and defence accepted that based on the facts the murderer could only have been Jeremy Bamber or Sheila Caffell. The facts pointed overwhelmingly to Jeremy Bamber.

The facts did not point to Sheila Caffell. For one thing, to have turned the gun on herself would have required her to have removed the moderator before placing the rifle under her chin. Yet the moderator was found, with the rifle sights, detached and placed back in the gun cabinet - with her blood on the end and inside. The person who had used the gun with the moderator attached within the last 24 hours was Jeremy Bamber. It was last seen with the moderator attached, which was then later detached after Sheila Caffell was shot with the rifle.

If you are saying Jeremy Bamber is innocent then you are saying Sheila Caffell committed the murders. There is no evidence to support that at all.

I'm genuinely interested in what convincing evidence there is against the West Memphis Three? In my understanding (and this isn't just based on Paradise Lost), the case was entirely circumstantial and is a great example of the satanic panic infecting the US justice system.

I watched this yesterday then googled it. There is a LOT that the documentary didn’t even touch on which suggests fairly obvious suicide, especially her mental state and relationship with her mother. I think this was a teenager with significant personal issues who couldn’t handle her emotions and made an ill thought out plan to kill herself, following through within an hour before she’d had chance to calm down.

@GoGoose no I haven't read all the details...although I would love to (even though that sounds rather grim). Makes me wonder what you do for a job :)

You're right though, we can all speculate but unless there is 100% proof either way, there will always be unsolved cases and miscarriages of justice.

The lack of solid alibis, the changing stories and the bite/knife mark are quite compelling, if true. List here: thoughtcatalog.com/eric-redding/2016/09/all-the-evidence-that-shows-why-the-notorious-west-memphis-three-have-probably-gotten-away-with-murder/

But I want to repeat that I don't necessary believe stuff written on random websites either! No doubting the investigation and trial was a complete shitshow, but the Paradise Lost was undoubtedly biased. It was good in bringing attention to the crime and hopefully went some way to getting police to up their game, but Echols still isn't legally exonerated.

It happened so far away in place and in time (to me) that very little can be undisputed facts...except the tragedy of 3 young boys losing their lives.

@Underroad Interesting. The doc began with the parents absolutely refuting that their DD would have killed herself, and i admit that i did think at that point ''hmmmm, sadly parents are often the last people to know what's really going on in their children's lives ...''. So not completely surprised to hear there was more to it.

But - her shoes? How did they end up so far away? Where were her shorts and t shirt? Why have they never been found? How come her feet weren't damaged by the terrain?

Was any of this answered?

And they said her injuries weren't consistent with being hit by a train while standing up or jumping onto the tracks. Would an 18 year old really lay across the tracks and wait for a train?

Oh I'll need to watch these. We just watched the Jeff dahmer series and found it very interesting.

As much as people talk about miscarriages of justice though and people who are wrongly convicted. There will also be people who were wrongly acquitted and are still at large.

The community know but they won’t talk.

I’m surprised at that drpet49 as so many turned up for the search and the meetings with the police

but certainly people know who he is and someone is protecting him