Was it unfair the school called social services on my 4 year old?

[Sky1992]

So just seeking for some advice....

AIBU assuming that my daughter school took it too far calling the social services over a lie she made up?

I have twin girls 4 year old. On Friday one of them had a little scab from fighting with her sister. A teacher asked what happened she said I was peeling her scab and hit her with a hanger.
When asked by senior staff she demonstrated with a paint brush a hard blow to her arm. The school then called social services because apparently an item for abuse was used they called police who said this isn't a police matter. At the end of the school day me and my partner were waiting whilst the social worker spoke to my daughter who very clearly had a great time and was giggling and even said I'm just joking. Just to be on the safe side the SW came for a quick house visit and was happy to leave it there saying she will close the case. My question is was the school too extreme calling the SS knowing this daughter of mine does tell porkie pies (this isn't her first time)?

Did the school "over react"?

P.s I never hit my children I was hit as a child and saw the effects it had on me. My daughter does tell fibs and we had a very long convo about this after. To make matters worse I'm a primary school teacher and these sort of fibs and having services invovled can effect my career.

Not exactly. Children's Services ask that we inform parents we are going to make a referral unless we have reason to suspect that doing so could increase the risk of harm to the child, or someone else.

Because mummy doesn't do what you want / isn't available to play all the time?
Surely that's normal? For people who habe got other children / jobs / others respinsiblilties / dinner to cook?

That’s vastly different to the PP’s suggestion that they’d have spoken to the parents about it rather than reporting it onward.

Have you taught Reception before? I have. They’re not usually comfortable enough to come out of their shell yet, not least make very specific disclosures. That, combined with not yet knowing who are the ones prone to exaggeration/little white lies, has led to a SS call.
It doesn’t really matter how much you know she tells porkies, OP. If we assume everything a child says is a porkie, we’d potentially be sending many children home to a terrible situation.

I agree @JustLyra, but the reality differs in my experience, as evidenced by OP.

Wouldn't you juat have asked the dsl at your school what they'd have done in that situation rather than on mumsnet? I agree with others,it's worrying that you think the school.should have disbelieved your dd because she's already told some lies.

My goodness OP, I’m glad you don’t teach my children. Your lack of understanding of safeguarding is startling.

Please please stop referring to your daughter’s lies as “porkie pies”. This is incredibly childish and belittles and trivialises what you have yourself stated is a problem.

DS1 has complex special needs and attends a special school. His school has reported us to SS on two separate occasions. On the second occasion it was because he’d informed teachers that DH and I whip him every Wednesday morning. He wasn’t even living at home on Wednesdays at the time because he was a weekly boarder. But they reported what he’d said to SS because they had to.

It’s beyond my understanding that you can possibly be a teacher TBH.

This thread is horseshit.

Yikes some really nasty comments about OP on this thread with some mob mentality bullying. Horrible.
It sounds more like a lying problem from Ops daughter than a safeguarding one.
Daughter needs pulling up on lying. Lying, not fibbing.

@Marmite17 kids lie for a reason.

My brother told a lie in primary school that my mum pushed him down the stairs.

Oh, wait, no, it wasn't a lie. School staff took it upon themselves to investigate it and decide my brother was lying, then punish him for lying and tell my mum who also punished him.

Neither of us ever disclosed anything again. Decades down the line (and an abusive childhood later) we're the only two people who know this was true. My mum still talks about my brother's 'lying problem' when he was little.

All school staff are required to complete safeguarding training on a regular basis. We may not be involved any more after the initial report, but we damn well get trained as to how the process works...

She’s four and has, apparently, repeatedly lied about being abused.

That needs looked into and she needs help. Not to be told off.

A teacher who "blames autocorrect" for crap spelling and grammar and ends every other sentence with "lol".

Mother of twins, too.

Yes, we report all disclosures and suspicions to the DSL, but we still need to know what to look out for/listen to. The DSL isn’t everywhere all at once, and I’d say a good number of the kids at my school don’t even know her name. They get comfortable with the class teacher they see all day, it’s us who will notice a change in behaviour/appearance/smell, we notice when the parent picking up starts to be late every day or is bruised, or if someone else starts to accompany them (new partner?). It’s is a child is comfortable enough to disclose to, then we pass concerns along.

No. These aren't 'porkie pies'. These are specific allegations of abuse that should be unknown to even an imaginative 4-year-old. The poor girl doesn't need pulling up, she needs help, like an assessment and a psychological evaluation. I'm surprised OP, as a primary teacher/early years specialist that you're so cavalier about your very young child telling such troubling stories.

I agree with you OP. For whatever reason your daughter lies maliciously. And due to school, rightly, having to safeguard gets the attention/ reaction she wants.
Maybe some kind of reward scheme for eg helpful behaviour? Rewards for being truthful?
Not sure what the answer is but you don't deserve the nasty comments on here. 💐

Maybe the OP is telling fibs about their qualifications... that said you can teach Year R without a degree or PGCE. You just need an Early Years qualification. I used to tutor a group of girls doing their Level 3 Early Years and trust me, you don't need a vast intellect.

Schools and many other settings have safeguarding procedures in place. It sounds like they overreacted.

I have a colleague who is mortified about something similar they did but as a teen. They suffered a broken limb through a sporting injury and the next day when asked at school what happened they made up a really shocking story of abuse by their parents culminating in being dragged up a flight of stairs and thrown over a balcony. I’m old so there was no such thing as safeguarding back then, perfectly legal for parents to hit kids and leave marks and none would get an eye but this story was horrific.

The school took the unprecedented step of calling the police who came in. Colleague repeated this story. The police took them away and got a formal statement, and then said they were waiting for foster parent to come in as parents would be charged and they would no longer be living at home. Colleague then thought Holy Shit and said they made the whole thing up. Police didn’t believe them and it took ages to convince them. Meanwhile parents had been brought in etc. Again, all unheard of in my day as the definition of child abuse was not what it is today, was an incredibly high bar where it needed to meet a bar way higher than that for general assault and battery, same as for a husband beating wife/partner.

My colleague said they had zero idea why they did it. They had no SEN. They were not a child that told lies beyond the usual low level lies kids tell as standard. They adored their parents and household. No household issues and really weird household for the time in that kids were generally not physically punished. They said, several decades on, they still have no idea what possessed them to say this.

I have one of my (adult) kids that is insistent to this day that I beat their sibling black and blue with an implement. This never happened. I never laid a hand on any of my kids or used anything to hit them. The sibling concerned is still shocked and has told them it never happened. We are not believed and apparently we are gaslighting them. No other accusations against themselves or any other siblings, just this and nothing at all we can do can convince them this incident never happened. I’m guessing they will go to their grave thinking it did (and likely tell a future spouse who will believe them as they do sound convincing).

I have a friend who’s reception age child told a huge whopper about how they were terribly injured by the parent. Can’t give details as identifying. Needless to say this sort of injury would have likely resulted in death and if they survived they would be incredibly scarred. They are not as this never happened. Also neither friend or husband have never touched any of their kids.

I fully support all kids claims being investigated but let’s not pretend that all kids are telling the truth, many tell absolute whoppers.

It sounds incredibly stressful for you, OP.

I would seek help for her- nhs will very likely do nothing at all as they have such appalling provision for children’s mental health- but if it were me, I’d like it to be on record that she tends to lie, and the content/details etc. of the lies.

To make matters worse I'm a primary school teacher and these sort of fibs and having services invovled can effect my career.

Are you sure? How is it possible to be a primary school teacher & not understand the exact rules & application of safeguarding procedures?

A 4 year old child who habitually invents lies about abuse is almost as worrying as one disclosing actual abuse, to those tasked with safeguarding them. How is it you don't see that?

I hope you get the support you need to uncover what is motivating your girl in this unfortunate behaviour, & that she soon grows out of it.

I think with people have to tread very carefully these days where child abuse could be an issue as there have been so many cases where it has slipped under the radar with awful consequences, however I can totally understand op's annoyance, if you were a kind, caring parent it would be hurtful that someone could think that of you. I think some people on here fail to put themselves in the same position, how would they feel if they were dragged in under the same circumstances, and I know they'll probably jump on this and say "If I wasn't guilty I wouldn't be bothered!" Really? Would you not feel slightly irritated or embarrassed?.

From a social work perspective, the only worrying thing about this whole scenario is that a primary school teacher can't see why the school did precisely the right thing!

We have some terrible issues with schools who clearly don't understand safeguarding and need retraining but your kids school has acted perfectly.

In what way does it sound like they overreacted?