Was it unfair the school called social services on my 4 year old?

[Sky1992]

So just seeking for some advice....

AIBU assuming that my daughter school took it too far calling the social services over a lie she made up?

I have twin girls 4 year old. On Friday one of them had a little scab from fighting with her sister. A teacher asked what happened she said I was peeling her scab and hit her with a hanger.
When asked by senior staff she demonstrated with a paint brush a hard blow to her arm. The school then called social services because apparently an item for abuse was used they called police who said this isn't a police matter. At the end of the school day me and my partner were waiting whilst the social worker spoke to my daughter who very clearly had a great time and was giggling and even said I'm just joking. Just to be on the safe side the SW came for a quick house visit and was happy to leave it there saying she will close the case. My question is was the school too extreme calling the SS knowing this daughter of mine does tell porkie pies (this isn't her first time)?

Did the school "over react"?

P.s I never hit my children I was hit as a child and saw the effects it had on me. My daughter does tell fibs and we had a very long convo about this after. To make matters worse I'm a primary school teacher and these sort of fibs and having services invovled can effect my career.

'If' you are a teacher you should know that the school behaved appropriately.

SS were satisfied and no harm has been done.

I'd be impressed that the schools safeguarding procedures are so robust.

Cant believe only one person pointed this out tbh.

And anybody making excuses about dyslexia or whatever, if it's your job that's not an excuse. I've tutored dyslexic teachers with words they confuse as they want to apply themselves.

Second post on this topic this week. Calling troll.

@1AngelicFruitCake

The language you used in your initial post to describe what you did comes across as abusive and you did say your daughter was hysterical.
Your later posts make it sound calmer.

You say the OP just had a chat with her daughter.
How is that different to what you did?
Apart from your daughter being hysterical and being left to play on her own?

That’s fine and good advice except I’d previously done something similar with her and she did it again. I think the fact I don’t usually react like I did that day upset her and it’s important she realised it was serious. I don’t think it was cruel to say I wasn’t playing with her for a short time or that Daddy can come and play when he got in because I’m worried she’ll say I hit her again. Your opinion is I was too harsh but I know my child and I am confident that I wasn’t.

Not sure what the bit at the bottom about your child is meaning? The daughter in question is imaginative, loves writing stories, writes songs as well. Most importantly she doesn’t lie about me or others. I see so many examples of less than desirable parenting most days and I definitely don’t think taking a firm line was abusive. As I said to another poster, you need to be careful throwing around the word abusive. I offered advice to give a different perspective. I accept you aren’t going to agree with me but calling my actions mental and cruel I think was unnecessary. I love my daughter very much and ultimately I haven’t got the situation OP has.

"said she's joking because she was sad that mummy didn't listen to her"

Maybe this is why your child lies.

I can see that my use of ‘tonne of bricks’ probably made it sound like I was shouting. I think my chat was more active than Ops. I was giving consequences that she was devastated by and would remember. Did I like seeing her cry? No. But making up lies about being hurt is serious. My daughter at 3 was able to explain her thoughts and feelings well. I think it’s important to understand that maybe your children are the type that would listen to a calm chat and not do it again (my eldest is like that). Not all children are the same so rather than continue to chat to her daughter and be surprised that she’s still doing it, OP needs to try something different.

Going back to OP, one thing I’m very surprised you said as a teacher was your daughter is known to fib so shouldn’t have been believed. Children need to be listened to every time so that’s why it’s so important they learn not to lie!

Sometimes I think MN leaves these threads standing for the clicks and traffic.

There's no way you're a primary teacher in the U.K., you have to complete a safeguarding refresher every year here and this is really basic stuff. A teacher has no real way of knowing what's is real abuse and what is a little story so they've done the right thing. The last thing anyone wants to do is create a culture where things aren't reported for fear of overreacting because then children who are being abused will slip through the net. In my opinion this is a great sign that your child's school is on the ball with safeguarding and didn't let the fact that you're not the stereotype of an abusive parent prevent them from doing the right thing.

Every teacher I know has the fear of accidentally missing something. Every time poor little Arthur or Daniel or Star is on the news it reminds people again the need for anyone coming into contact with kids to be vigilant, so in that respect you must be able to emphasise with a fellow professional.

Imo we need a total mindset shift re social services. If you are looked into and found to be innocent, well that's a good sign the social services in your area are doing their job. It might have been unpleasant and worrying for you but they're trying their best to investigate signs of abuse and that is good.

No of course they didn't over react. You're a teacher and you know perfectly well that vile things happen to children. They did exactly the right thing to safeguard your daughter. If they'd failed to respond, and something had happened to her ...

No.

They did exactly what they are supposed to do.
They didn't call ss on your daughter, they called for your daughter.

Failures to take action are the reason some children slip through unnoticed.

Imagine if a case a child abuse went unchallenged because the teachers considered the child to be a serial liar. Imagine the trouble they would be in for not taking the child’s claims seriously.

Of course they have to assume the child is telling the truth.

The fact that your daughter appears to be a compulsive liar is something you need to address, not the school.

1. It's always twins 🙄

2. You're not a school teacher (I am), no teacher would have written this post.

All the people piling on here obviously actually aren't working in the education system.

Once you report to DSL you very very rarely know what's happened unless it becomes a case and you are asked for a report or evidence on a child or any observations.

I also know how it feels to have accusations made which aren't true but yet could be true and worry about losing your job and income for something you can't actually prove isn't true.

Unfortunately it's catch 22. The more OPs DD lies and makes untrue accusations - even though they know they are untrue - it builds up a case which means the more they'll respond and get involved. For children who crave attention any old how this then becomes a great thing to do so they tell more lies.

Obviously for very very obvious reasons they have to respond and report.

But anyone who refuses to see why a mum being untruthfully accused of abusing their child frequently wouldn't be worried is just being a deliberate obtuse cunt.

I think speaking to school is great. Go in and tell them about behaviours and ask what they see in school. Not just for that TDD sake but for her sister who doesn't deserve to keep being hurt for having an equal turn at being first.

YABU
The school did their job. If they manage to catch 1 true case in 100 false investigations surely that is a good thing? I’m flabbergasted that you cannot see that. Perhaps you could read the book ‘The boy that called wolf’ to your daughter.

I wouldn't be bashed left right centre for my grammar which is mainly down to auto correct and I can't be bothered to type correctly or ensure its formal

b) I wouldn't be corned for not knowing about safeguarding enough etc and yes I would have reported it if a child told me ofcourse but the nature of this case is more different than an average child claiming of abuse

Nonsense. Autocorrect doesn't take full stops out of sentences or remove correctly placed apostrophes, and it certainly didn't insert all those extraneous incorrect words into the second paragraph quoted.

Of course not. The school absolutely did the right thing. I am a social worker OP and it happens frequently but there are also times when it’s the truth, it’s not the schools job to investigate this. All they can do is report ANY disclosure to Children’s Services to investigate. If it’s nothing to worry about it usually becomes clear quite quickly.

Maybe your imaginary daughter inherited your gift for making up total crap.

I do think a child repeatedly lying about abuse is an issue actually. I don't know what the answer is. Children do lie, school know this. No doubt school was duty bound on this occasion which is correct.

But the fact that one twin repeatedly does it and the other doesn't is an issue. Perhaps this needs investigating. From a parents pov being falsely reported to SS for abuse is not nice. How many more times is this one twin going to go this? 2 or 3 more times?

Have you talked to someone you trust, eg your mum, about this? You don't want it repeating regularly.

Schools need to take each accusation seriously, even with known liars because there may be one time when they are actually telling the truth. The teacher could get in big trouble if she assumed your daughter was crying wolf and sent her home only for something horrendous to happen.

Although, your daughter is old enough for a stern talking too about telling lies and the serious consequences that can have.

Im not clear what the school can do re your childs habit of telling lies, I think you need to make the effort to get outside support like play therapy or something, link in with GP and see what they advise.
Just because 1 twin doesnt do this doesnt mean your parenting is neeting both their needs, and thats not a criticism of you, its bloody hard to give all the children in a family the particular support they need but it has to be done for the childs sake (and the family as a whole tbh). Its particularly difficult with twins as they are at the same stage and doing the same things, with age gaps youll have a child napping or at football etc so theres time to dedicate to the other. Could you start taking them in turn out to a local cafe on a Saturday morning maybe?
If you think its more shes a dramatic soul than attention seeking get her into drama classes or writing stories, she dictates and illustrates and you write the words for her.
Re the safeguarding, I can understand how you may not get how the upper levels of it work once you report it, but if you dont have any choice or discretion in what you report from your classroom why do you think the upper levels have any choice re going further either?

I’m a safeguarding school governor - and your post is a concern to me too.

first of all it’s not on a school to assess / decide about a safeguarding threat to a child. The DSL makes the relevant report and SS are the ones who make the relevant assessment.

once that happens, staff know nothing further.

but seeing as it’s only October, you should’ve done a safeguarding refresher training and read KCSIE 2022 plus Annex A around specific safeguarding information for staff at the beginning of term. But your lack of concern / knowledge around procedures is a concern

No, but most teachers in decent schools would have sat through hours of safeguarding training and know the protocols. I can't see how any teacher would find it surprising that this was taken further.

I love how many people are mad at me for being a teacher who isn't bothered to type properly and correctly lol.
The funny part is this is a genuine post with some wild comments. Iv had people telling me since I was abused I must abuse her to my 4 year old is a psycho to yeah pop her in a drama class

Calm down

Primary teacher here too. I understand your frustration and worry but you know they have a duty of care. If a child in your class told you this what would you do? I hope you would raise it as a safeguarding issue. If not then you really do need to read your safeguarding policy. You should be retraining in it each year.