To end a 30+ year friendship over this?

[Loulou572]

One of my longest and closest friends, Emily (not real name) has a 25 year old dd, Poppy, with high functioning autism. She’s a lovely beautiful girl who half the time you would never even know had autism but it still sometimes makes her hard to communicate with until she feels comfortable and she can freeze up or avoids talking to people even if she already knows them well. She is currently living at home at Emily’s house with her boyfriend as they’re waiting for the house purchase to be completely finished in the new year.

Last weekend DD and I went to a bar in our town. It was around 10pm and Poppy comes in, I didn’t want to bother her, especially as I didn’t think she’d welcome it due to how she normally is, so smiled and gave a quick wave as she walked past and she went off into the toilet. About half hour later we was sat in the smoking area and she comes over, she was very chatty and asking alot of questions which is very unusual for her, I assumed she was just drunk but DD pointed out her and all her friends were chewing gum and thought it may have been MDMA or coke they were on as it causes issues with the jaw and “that’s the only time people chew gum on nights out”. She went to the bar to get a drink and when dd and I went inside a few minutes later she wasn’t there but there was
a couple of poor bar staff cleaning up a huge amount of sick on the floor and apparently a girl had been kicked out (didn’t realise this was her at that time)

About an hour later we left the bar and saw her getting escorted out of a second bar, I checked on her and she was definitely on drugs as her pupils were enormous, I asked her boyfriend what’s gone on and he said they were kicked out because she was sick, I asked why she was sick and was it her in the other bar, it was and they don’t know why she was being sick as there was no build up “she was talking and suddenly large amounts of sick just came pouring out her mouth”, one of her friends suggested it was sensory thing due to the loud music and lights but it was obviously due to the drugs. I offered to call her mum to get her as it was just gone 11 at the time but they said they already booked a taxi.

Sunday afternoon I text Emily to check how poppy was just saying we saw her last night and she didn’t seem too fresh. Emily said she’s all good, got in a 4am but she had a good night. I checked what time we had booked our taxi home which was shortly after she had got into her taxi as I didn’t feel comfortable leaving her and it was 11:48 so i don’t know where she was until 4am. I decided to call emily and tell her about the sick, getting kicked out of 2 bars, the drugs, and leaving before midnight despite not arriving home until 4. Emily says she already knows about poppy using drugs and says it’s ecstasy pills that she has a testing kit for so knows what she’s taking (can that be true though?). She being using it on and off since 2018 and Emily has just decided to ignore it because there’s not much she can do seeing as she’s an adult with her own money, it’s not often and it gives poppy the chance to go out and enjoy nights out like others in their 20s without her autism getting in the way.

I talked about this with a mutual friend who is closer to Poppy who apparently also knew and doesn’t see any issue, she sent me links to studies on how mdma/ecstasy helps with the social anxiety that comes with autism but all the studies are old bar a few and when doing my own research I found some that argued against it. I’ve expressed how uncomfortable it makes me and said to one of our friends I don’t think I can carry on a friendship knowing Emily is condoning illegal drug use and everyone’s piled in on me and some are even claiming my DD only suspected the drug use due to her also using drugs which is not true.

On one hand I know it’s not my business, poppy is a lovely girl with a good job and does fine most the time and Emily is normally very straight edged but on the other hand I don’t understand how any parent can be aware of their children using horrid drugs and just shrugging it off, it’s made me question the type of person Emily is and how I’ve not had an inkling she was like this before, I also don’t like how they dragged my dd into it with their false accusations.

As it happens, I did take recreational drugs throughout my teens and 20’s. I also had “cool parents” who knew and didn’t lecture me about it. They were also pretty shit parents.

I’d be worried sick if I found out my DD had been seen in that state, and I would thank you the friend who told me, not start justifying it.

Poppy is a vulnerable adult

Poppy is an adult with autism who has autonomy. She's in a relationship, they've bought a house, she sounds perfectly capable of making decisions.

And (still thinking about this!) if she is taking drugs to “stop her autism getting in the way” maybe she needs to change the environments and the people that she is spending time in/with.

That is the kind of thing I’d be thinking about if I were her mother. If you need drugs or alcohol to cope with a situation (as opposed to enjoying it anyway but taking them as an extra) then something is wrong with the situation

Do you understand even the first thing about autism?

Actually @threegoodthings , I should change that to “Poppy might be a vulnerable adult” as we don’t know much about her support needs.

She is likely to be emotionally more vulnerable than someone who is neurotypical though. Autistic people don’t need to be encouraged to take MDMA ‘to deal with social anxiety’ though, they need environments and people where they feel safe and can be themselves.

Yes, Poppy might figure this out herself eventually. Her mother shouldn’t be justifying it though by saying that, and it is certainly not what “all young people do”.

Hmm, I’m autistic @threegoodthings , and so is one of my DC.

That doesn’t make an expert, but I know a fair amount about social anxiety and pressure to “fit in”.

Shes 25 ffs. She can take drugs if she wants to.

I'd have told you to do one tbh. It's absolutely ridiculous that you called her mother!

I took drugs on and off for several decades during which time I passed a degree, got post-grad qualifications, held down a variety of responsible jobs, raised a child alone and paid off a mortgage. It's called recreational drug use and people do it sensibly in the same way many people drink responsibly. My adult child took recreational drugs and because I always had non-dramatic, non-hysterical discussions about the pros and cons of drug use (including alcohol), the side effects, the law we were always able to have a good open and honest conversation. Dugs aren't good and they aren't bad, like many things in life they have their dangers (extreme sport anyone?) and their pleasures. It's good that this young woman is using a testing kit to see how safe her drugs are, one of the riskiest things about drugs is the fact that they are illegal

You rang a 25 year-old woman's mum to tell on her?! At 25 I was travelling the world, although I have never taken drugs, most people around me had dabbled. At 25 you make your own decisions. I'm cringing at you calling her mother, seriously. I don't condone drug use but adults make their own decisions.

No idea how anything you mention leads to you cutting your friend off? Bizarre. What should your friend do? Ground her 25 year old??

@BiscuitLover3678 tester kits are great, you take a very small amount of the substance you're intending to use before you use it and it basically tests it to make sure it is what you've been told it is. It's not completely fail safe as people can react differently to substances etc but it reduces the risk of you taking something you've been told is x to find out its actually poisonous or something else entirely. It can also be used to test the potency of the substance so someone knows how much might be safe for them to use to help them avoid overdose especially if they haven't used in a while. It's a harm reduction method.

Is there another reason you want to end the friendship. She has my utmost respect for having such an honest relationship with her daughter. Is there room to challenge your values? This nonsense is drummed into us. It's ok for people to poison themselves and all the violence and abuse that comes with alcohol. Yet, this isn't ok because the government decided to make it illegal. Friends and I all did this in our 20s. Now I'm a boring fart and dislike seeing how so many abuse alcohol. But it's all ok as the law says we can drink to oblivion 🤷‍♀️.

I would not want a friend like you if you think that way. She can't control her ADULT daughter. Particularly as she is autistic, autonomy and control of one's life is essential for autistic people and most parents in this position know this.

Gossiping to the other friend about it? Not cool.

Yes it is essentially the same thing. Ecstacy is made from MDMA but cut with other drugs to form pills, whereas MDMA is powder/crystal, snorted, made into capsules or 'bombs' in a bit of tissue or rolling paper. MDMA is thought to be purer than pills because it doesn't (or isn't supposed to) have other added drugs/chemicals in it.

It was used in the early 70's by psychiatrists, as a form of therapy, before being reclassified as a class A.

Who cares? If Poppy was 15 I might see your point, but at 25 she's a grown adult and it's really only her business (and her mums if she's living here, I guess). This certainly wouldn't be enough for me to break off a long-standing friendship, or any friendship really. I don't get the issue.

@TerfQueen
What an ignorant comment. It's all out there. You'd have to be deaf and blind not to know what some of the signs of drug use are. I've never touched drugs but could, 80% of the time, recognise if anyone was under the influence. I would not, however, cut ties with a friend whose child of any age was involved with drugs, as long as they weren't dealing drugs and the parent(s) made it known that it was not something they agreed with. As the daughter is an adult and only at her mother's house until she moves when her house is finished, I think the OP could stick it out until then. Her friend is between a rock and a hard place.

Who needs enemies with friends like you? Don't stick your oar in.

It's not an ideal situation but it's absolutely feck all to do with you.

Well, I can see your point contrary to many on here...Ive seen lives lost and wasted to drugs, so I also find it hard to stomach that a mother would support it (and just for her safety too, who knows what could happen to her when she's off her face if her friends aren't watching her). And so many people saying that OPs daughter is using too, just because she knows the signs? come on, a lot is just general knowledge, spesh if your of the age when lots of friends at parties are partaking.....rolls eyes...

You’re all just screaming into the void. You realise OP hasn’t made one post since her original?

While I understand your point I disagree. I’m autistic, I see you also are so please don’t think I’m talking over you, I respect your point of view I just have a different one.

I took mdma/ecstasy so I could enjoy nights outs more, could I have just not gone out? Of course, but I wanted to. I didn’t want to change the environment or the people I spent time with, I wanted to create a situation in which I could actually enjoy it. I spent years watching other girls do these things I wanted, getting dressed up, going out to clubs and dancing, enjoying a life I couldn’t even dream of, I was desperate to do that too but my autism always stood in the way. I was 20 when I first tried drugs, other than weed, and it was like a whole new person had been unlocked. Suddenly I was this energetic, outgoing, social, bubbly, fun person, I was always like that when with people or in situations I comfortable with but ecstasy helped me be like that in a new situation and make loads of new friends, some of which are still my best friends now! That door never closed for me after that either so I was able to continue going out and feeling more confident even without the drugs.

Would I encourage drug use? Absolutely not. But I can understand where Poppy and other people who share similar views are coming from.

Your OP doesn’t put you in the best light (gossipy tone and actions, why involve a mutual friend?) and you haven’t been back either to clarify anything. As majority posted yes YABU, but do end the friendship, if only for your friend’s sake.
We don’t know what conversations your friend had in the past with her DD, but as she pointed out she’s now 25

Your very opinionated in regards to how your friend should have reacted & responded; her daughter is an adult what she does has fuck all to do with you; why drag mutual friends into it? Talk about being a gossip!! I totally agree with the wider group of friends & if I were Emily I’d end my friendship with you because I’d not want a friend who tries to shame me in front of the group we mutually share; with friends like you she doesn’t need any enemies does she !!!

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable, I would struggle with this too… but then working with addicts has given me a different view to the others commenting I guess.
However sometimes we just have to except that we all parent differently.. I don’t agree with how some of my friends raise their children… however I bite my lip and unless they ask for it I keep my opinion to myself… if they do ask I tell them and add that we are different and our kids are all different.

You need to get off the high horse. Really sorry but there is literally nothing Emily can do. Poppy is 25 years old and can do whatever she wants. How a young women deals with her autistic social experience cannot be judged by you or anyone. It is scary drugs are scary but it’s a life choice she has made. Be a good friend and support your friend it will be extremely difficult for her she will worry as all parents do.

She’s 25! What the hell can your friend do? Get a grip

I agree with 99% of the mums here.

People often say things like, "I've seen what drugs can do ..." and yes, they can mess up a life or end a life. My brother died aged 33 from an AIDS related illness from shared needles due to heroin addiction. I had to help get him up off the bathroom floor when he od-ed one Christmas which was so much fun. But. Most people don't go down that path and I have seen far more lives ruined and ended by alcohol abuse.

Drugs aren't necessarily bad, they can be great but legislation is mostly appallingly misguided which leads to supply chains that wreck lives, makes shit loads of money for criminals and is covered in hypocrisy. Addiction is bad and it's a messed up illness. Taking class As recreationally, using test kits to be safe is arguably better than getting absolutely hammered on booze. Given that it helps Poppy to really enjoy social situations I think she is probably far more sensible than most of us put together.