To think that transing young children is a medical scandal?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11342541/Dr-Az-Hakeem-says-parents-claimed-kids-trans-NHS-Tavistock-transing-factory-clinic.html

"I remember saying to them, this is madness. What we're doing is madness. These are children. These are three-year-olds."
Are we seriously saying this is ok? I feel like as a society we have gone mad, allowing this to happen to young children.

AIBU to think this is child abuse? And if you disagree how do you justify three and four year olds being transed?

Sex means male/female
Gender means a shifting constellation or something indefinable.
You appear to be conflating the two.
Intersex (psa, no one calls it that now) or dsd, disorder of sexual development, does not mean either a multiple gender or both sexes. Down at DNA level its obvious which sex they are.

We need to let kids be kids. Let them wear what they want, use nickname if they want. Stop playing to gender stereotypes

For those who are trying to derail the thread or silence me please DM or start a new thread as OP must be getting very annoyed that we are taking up so much space.

OP I am sorry and as I’ve said I completely agree with your OP.

You have spewed offensive nonsense all across this thread for everyone to read. No wonder you're trying to change the subject now.

Sommicj misunderstanding of intersex/DSDs on display here. In the vast majority of DSDs the person is either male or female. CAIS means they are male but phenotypically female as can't respond to testosterone. Still male though. There is one extremely rare thing that can happen where genetic mosaicism means both male and female tissue can be present. In all cases this is biology, or more correctly genetics gone wrong. It's a disorder of normal human sexual development and the individuals affected are infertile and don't reproduce. It is not evidence of a third or different sex and people with DSDs are not trans because of their condition.

Down at DNA level its obvious which sex they are.

Sorry OP last point.

It is not as simple as XX or XY chromosomes unfortunately.

Lots of males have no Y chromosome and lots of people have XXY, XO etc.

If people want to DM me that’s fine and I’ll try and answer their questions as best as I can based on my previous experience and things that I have learnt as I do find these subjects very interesting but I won’t be letting posters use me to derail the thread anymore.

I suggest that anyone that actually wants to learn about DSDs accesses the resources available from a reputable charity and does not DM randoms on the internet for misinformation or. read ropaganda from trans activists.

I agree.

And I would offer that advice to anyone on here.

Just because someone says something on here, doesn’t mean it’s true.

Always do your own research which is readily available on proper websites and don’t let the vipers on here try and silence you or bully you into thinking the same as them.

This is helpful

www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

And demonstrates that there is no real ambiguity in the sex classification of those with DSDs, even if they have chromosomal makeup that's not XX or XY.

It is child abuse and complete insanity. Girls are girls, boys are boys. They can play with whatever toys they like, they can dress however they like from one day to the next but to start socially transitioning them and putting them on a pathway to unnecessary complicated experimental surgery, sterilisation and a life long need for medication and is the most horrendous form of abuse I can think of. It is like something from a dystopian science fiction horror novel!

I'm never even sure what the point of bringing DSDs into the conversation is. They are not, to my knowledge, even slightly over represented in those identifying as Trans.

There is nothing ambiguous in the sexual presentation of the vast, vast, vast majority of those identifying of trans.

Yes, carefreeme, and someone with XXY is male, XO is female.

I appreciate that you think you've done lots of reading on this but you seem to still be missing quite a lot of vital information.
Don't forget quite a lot of posters here do have a scientific background despite being mums and all, you don't need to try and talk down to us. (Especially when you're wrong)

It's really NOT 'lots of people'. DSDs are rare, particularly the ones that involve karyotypes outside the usual XX/XY. There have only been 500 documented cases of ovotesticular syndrome with both male and female germ lines present in the whole of human history. 500 people out of billions! It ridiculous to try and conflate DSD and being trans. They are 2 completely different things. Sex and gender identity are completely different. Phenotypical males without a Y chromosome are very rare and what they will have in most case is the SRY region of the Y chromosome translocated onto an X chromosome, by mistake. These are abnormalities and don't change the fact that the Y chromosome (with its SRY region and other associated genes) is male-determining in humans.

To really understand intersex you need to do GCSE Biology, followed by A level Biology, followed by either a degree in Molecular Biology or a medical degree. It's massively complex and does not disprove the norm. Which is that 99.99% of people have XY chromosomes in every cell and hence are functional males or XX and hence are functional females. How they feel or identify or their sexuality or their fertility is nothing to do with this base configuration.

Don't forget quite a lot of posters here do have a scientific background despite being mums and all

‘despite being mums and all’

😁😁
You would be a good journalist.

I too am/was a scientist and a parent.
Now I am a psychologist and a parent.

Probably why I’m interested in the grey areas, rather than just the black and white areas.

A quick health warning about DM ing posters about this topic. There are a number of transactivists who are all over Mumsnet and are very keen to engage in DMs with other posters - who then find their messages posted on twitter. So it's worth being very cautious about repeated requests for DMs.

LMAO, you're the one asking people to DM you so you can impart your (partial and misleading) knowledge.

Posters trying to correct misinformation is not bullying or silencing FFS.

I too am/was a scientist and a parent.
Now I am a psychologist and a parent

Aye.

If DSD was a factor them they would routinely test these children being taken to clinics to examine their chromosomes. They don't. Because it is social contagion and mental health issues in the parents, not the young kids that brings them to these clinics.

As a psychologist are you not more worried about the psychological issues that are going to arise in the parents who transed their young kids, particularly if they took them for surgery or hormones that permanently damage their health, sexuality and fertility, once they realise the enormity of what they did? Especially once they realise the narrative has gone against them and they are now being openly defined as abusive or confused or ignoring trauma or autism in their children?

LMAO, you're the one asking people to DM you so you can impart your (partial and misleading) knowledge.

Yes but only because I want people like you to stop derailing the thread and trying to silence me because you think I’m a trans-activist.

It happens all of the time on here which is why I don’t usually bother commenting on these threads as you get hounded by certain posters until you leave.

There can be no discussion with these people which is why so many get removed.

To get back to the subject which is little children being transitioned. Transgender Trend has two excellent insightful articles written by a qualified and experienced clinical psychologist about the psychological harm being done to children by social transitioning. Young children:

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Teenagers:
www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

Well worth reading for parents and for sharing with others - especially schools.

DSDs have nothing to do with "transkids" as discussed in the article I posted.

And people with DSDs are not born in the wrong body either. Even if they like some disabled kids may need some extra medical support...

NO CHILD IS BORN IN THE WRONG FUCKING BODY.

I'm starting to think that anyone who thinks that any child is born in the wrong body is mentally unsound and shouldn't be around children.

Ha ha you're the one who started spouting nonsense about people being born in the wrong body and people who are born both sexes. The derailment is all yours.

Or working as a psychologist. .

As a psychologist are you not more worried about the psychological issues that are going to arise in the parents who transed their young kids, particularly if they took them for surgery or hormones that permanently damage their health, sexuality and fertility, once they realise the enormity of what they did?

I work mainly with young people and so my concern is with them more than their parents.

I do feel sorry for the parents, especially as the article said how many of them have lost a child previously and are basically trying to mould their new child into the one they’ve lost.
I can only imagine they never got over their grief and it turned into some sort of psychosis.

But my main concern is the child in this situation who is being forced to be someone they’re not, basically just to get their parents love.

There is no way a child so young would choose this for themselves and it is child abuse regardless of how mentally unwell their parents are.

So yes I feel for the parents but that doesn’t absolve their actions and it’s important that these establishments are reporting the parents coming to them.

@CarefreeMe you are being offensive to disabled people. How does your theory fit the fact that a lot of people grow up with no disability but become disabled? Does their brain change? Suddenly? Gradually? Talk me through it.